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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 09-27-2006
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water in the lungs

When I was a teenage lifeguard they taught us to drag a drowning victim up onto the beach by the feet, face down, to help clear water from the lungs. I don't know if this is still current procedure or not.
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  #22  
Old 09-27-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockter
Water is not commonly found in the lungs of drowning victims.

Even if it were, you have got to get oxygen into the victim's blood and get it circulating or it's game over.
Where did that come from? When a person drowns water gets inhaled because it is a body reflex to breathe even while unconscious. When a person drowns they usually become exhausted or hypothermic, pass out, then inhale water. It is the reason why many drowning victims sink and are not easily found (their lungs are nolonger displacing air).

If you get to the person quickly enough CPR -can- induce the lungs to expel the water, just as it can help to get the heart beating again. It is unfortunate that the man lost his life due to drowning when the boat and crew were able to find and rescue him from the water.
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  #23  
Old 09-27-2006
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Correct the word "commonly", for "always", and have a look at this article, with emphasis on the reference to laryngospasm. Some poor souls do not get water in the lungs, particularily in the early minutes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning

Check the section beginning....

Quote....

Unconsciousness

A continued lack of oxygen in the brain, hypoxia, will quickly render a victim unconscious usually around a blood partial pressure of oxygen of 25-30mmHg. An unconscious victim rescued with an airway still sealed due to laryngospasm stands a good chance of a full recovery. Artificial respiration is also much more effective without water in the lungs. At this point the victim stands a good chance of recovery if attended to within minutes. In most victims the laryngospasm relaxes some time after unconsciousness and water fills the lungs resulting in a wet drowning. Latent hypoxia is a special condition leading to unconsciousness where the partial pressure of oxygen in the lungs under pressure at the bottom of a deep free-dive is adequate to support consciousness but drops below the blackout threshold as the water pressure decreases on the ascent, usually close to the surface as the pressure approaches normal atmospheric pressure. A blackout on ascent like this is called a deep water blackout.

...Unquote.

You really must try to kickstart breathing the first moment you can try, and yiu have got to keep trying and trying. Everything hinges on that one.
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  #24  
Old 09-27-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Graham-
Interesting that Oz defines it that way, but is that just "your sovereign /vs/ my sovereign" or is there some international or UN convention that also defines it that way?
The international standard is established through the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) Radio Regulations. These are typically incorporated into local legislation and then into local regulatory documents.

For example, in the US Federal Communications Commission regulations, Sub Part G (Safety Watch Requirements and Procedures) of Part 80 in Subchapter D [no I'm not a lawyer] contains the following:
"s80.314. . . . international radio telephone distress signal consists of the word MAYDAY . . . . . . indicate that a mobile station is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance."

"s80.327. . . The urgency signal indicates that the calling station has a very urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft, or other vehicle, or the safety of a person . . . . the urgency signal consists of three oral repititions of the group of words PAN PAN . ."
On the US Coastguard site for boating there is the following:
"PAN-PAN (pronounced pahn-pahn) is used when the safety of a boat or person is in jeopardy.
Man-overboard messages are sent with the PAN-PAN signal."
Similar localised legislation and regulation exists in Australia aswell, as I'm sure it does in other 'member states' of the ITU.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha_V

Of course, we are likely to be in agreement, He is a local and I think we may have done our radio operators tickets at the same place (Sandringam Coast Guard, by any chance, Graham?). I also think I recognise the name of your boat and may have seen it in my forays to Hastings.
You got it in one! And I'm off to Hastings soon for a day on Western Port :-)
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  #25  
Old 09-27-2006
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Thanks for the reference, Graham.

Looking back I see "The chief said that if he had been unconscious, he'd be floating facing up & breathing close to normal." which strikes me as oddly contradictory to everything I've seen on the subject. Scuba BC's and Type1 PFDs especially are designed to *rotate* an unconcious person so they will be face-up in the water. Whether you're face up or down is just the luck of the fall, and face down just ensures a better chance of drowning AFAIK.

Personally I'm not afraid of *being* in the water, but of "going" in the water--and cracking my noggin on the way. Which brings back the old question, if you recover a MOB, do you want to "drift down" on them, or come up from downwind of them. (Decisions, decisions.)
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  #26  
Old 09-27-2006
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I have never had to do it, but drifting down on them would be my only chance. At least I could get a hold of the MOB.

If I came up from downwind, beam on, the old ship would lean away from the MOB and I would never be able to reach down that far.
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Old 09-27-2006
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When it was me doing it. I just made it up as I went along. Only later did we sit down and anylise what choices I had made. We knew they were at least acceptable choices by the fact I was having the discussion with the blanket wrapped survivor of going overboard into cold waters in 25knot winds.

I basically decided not to screw around with trying to sail it perfectly and fired up the motor, depowered the sails and came back on a reciprical compass course because they were not immediately visible (or wearing a PFD). I drifted down on them sideways so that I could work from the middle of the boat and the boat provided some calm form the wind and waves. As an added advantage, the wind was causing the boat to heel over in that direction as even de-powered sails provide a ton of windage and so it was easier to lift the now totally weak-as-a-newborn-kitten and exhausted rescuee on board with the boat flopped over by about 15-20 extra degrees.

As to the tool used to assist the rescue. I found a boat hook was effectatious and close to hand on deck. I was not going below to grab something and risk loosing site of the MOB again. The boat hook got slipped down the back of the persons shirt while they were floating uproight and holding to my other arm. I then had some leverage on their centre of gravity in order to help them into the boat (head first, face down).

I found the lifelines to be one of the most annoying and problamatic aspects of the rescue, and have since replaced mine with Spectra, which is as strong as steel, softer to fall against, and can be cut with a knife if you need to recover someone from overboard. I would have needed to bring some rope, improvise a harness, attach the person tot he side of the boat, go forawrds and unhook the pelican hook, come back and THEN enact rescue if I was going to lower the steel lifelines. Not a great option, so spectra is better as I always have a knife in pocket whilst sailing.

Sasha
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2007
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Mostup to date references I can find to Mayday calls (inc. GMDSS procedures) refer to the vessell or persons in grave or imminent danger. I suggest you use Mayday - who is going to argue?
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2007
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Are you aware that you're replying to a thread that was over six months old and pretty dead until you revived it.
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  #30  
Old 04-26-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Are you aware that you're replying to a thread that was over six months old and pretty dead until you revived it.
No pun intended?
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