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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #1  
Old 10-30-2006
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Double Headsails

Not talking cutter rig but double headsail sloop. The 'old dear' already has an inner forestay, the idea being that the storm jib is set on the inner so that there is no need to drop the furling genoa.

With full tanks, load of books, stores etc the OD tends to struggle somewhat in very light air. I am wondering whether a jib made of the same cloth as the genoa and set on the inner would give her a bit of a kick along in drifting conditions up to say 10 odd knots. I can set an MPS type sail when reaching or running so the problem really only exists when close hauled.

I realise that the extra sail area should theoretically give some extra speed, what I'm concerned about is whether there would be some loss of effficiency.

Any thoughts ?

Regards

Andrew
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Old 10-31-2006
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Second jib

I don't think there be any performance benefit from an inner jib, probably the reverse is more likely. First, the sail couldn't be too large, consider the shorter I and J measurements you start with on an inner forestay, and secondly that sail would more likely mess up the existing airflow in the slot more than it would contribute drive. This is just my opinion, but consider that you don't see double headsails used in ultimate performance configurations where the boat is not constrained by rating or rule. You do see double headsails being used on some offshore racing boats, but I've always thought that more due to the advantages of easily adjusting area by furling/dropping one or the other than by the pure advantage of two used together.

I'd think the best you could do to improve upwind performance in light air is run a high performance 150% (or get a bigger stick).

Good luck,

Last edited by sailingfool; 10-31-2006 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 10-31-2006
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I'd agree with sailingfool. I doubt it would increase your light air performance. A big asym would be a much better solution for light air.
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2006
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I'm afraid I have to agree with you both. It was a case of 'hope springs eternal' even in an old farts breast.

SF - The 150% is an obvious answer. The negative is that my current genoa works beautifully above 10 or so knots. If I go to a 150% I'll end up with a partially furled genoa for a lot of the time and I'd really like to avoid that. I was of course hoping that you'd all chime in with "perfect solution TD, smart thinking there boyoh". Not to be, oh well, such is life and on to plan B which involves bloody expensive new propellor.
It can be a difficult situation this. On the one hand I want a good solid cruiser that can carry a decent load , have a nice stable motion and comfortable accommodation. On the other hand when not cruising I still like going out for a weekend sail.

SD - Have big asym but that's not going to help me when close hauled.

Cheers

Andrew
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Old 10-31-2006
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Andrew-

True..but a fairly large percentage of your time, you won't be sailing close hauled.
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SD - this is true under a lot of circumstances but for the time being sailing up and down the east Australian coast is our cruising ground. Prevailing summer winds in these here parts are nor east so you are either beating against it coming or going. Sailing the NSW coast, the go is to wait until a SW change comes through, let the worst of it die down then pick up the tail. Nice idea except the southerly can be infrequent while the NE is virtually daily. The NSW coast can be a frustrating place to sail. The NE breeze comes in very slowly, usually late morning then builds (often to well over 20 knots) until some time after midnight when usually it dies completely. This means you either motor if you want progress in the early hours (ptooey !) or you need good light weather close hauled performance while the NE drifts about before settling in mid morning. As much as I wish it I'm afraid I have to take note of the old Inuit proverb "you can't have your kayak and heat it" or words to that effect. :-)

Andrew
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Well... then the 150% Genny might be the best solution for ya.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 10-31-2006
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How old are your sails?

Given your reluctance to go to a large furled headsail, perhaps for a similar investment you can upgrade the inventory you have, staying with an undersized headsail, upgrade the main and gain considerable performance in that manner - this is assuming your current inventory is "bagged".

A less expensive alternative to the costly feathering props is a locally (Western Canada) available Campbell sailor prop - 2 or 3 fixed blades with much smaller "drag" area than a conventional michigan wheel. We used one on our old 40 racer/cruiser with good results - at $700 vs $3500+ for a Max. Not a folder, but less drag and no problems. http://www.westbynorth.com/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Well... then the 150% Genny might be the best solution for ya.
Sd - It's a bugger really. If I go the 150% route then it has to be a hanked sail on it's own forestay. On any given day I'm likely to get less than a couple of hours out of a 150%er then either reef or change sails. The idea of spending most of my time with a partially furled headsail does not appeal and changing sail on a furler is a bit of a pain let's face it. Then again twin forestays are also a pain. Methinks that I am just going to have to live with the (relatively) poor light wind performance.
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You could always go with a second roller furling unit on a second forestay... it's a bit overkill for most people but that would give you the ease of roller furling, and the ability to switch between two sails easily. If the 150% was on a wire luff roller furling unit, you could drop it fairly easily when it was not in use.

Some of the newer Asyms can go fairly far upwind...so it might be worth looking at them as well.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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