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updating charts

5K views 44 replies 13 participants last post by  aa3jy 
#1 ·
First off, I hope everyone made it through Hurricane Matthew ok. I wasn't really sure where to post this since it affects not only NC but pretty much all of the SE US coast. After Hurricane Matthew I was amazed at how much my navigation charts changed. I have Navionics so I know the changes are published quicker than most since they use community edits and so forth. Anyway, just wanted to mention to everyone that you probably want to update your charts now or in the near future. Lots of sand shifted and lots of dunes are gone and that sand had to go somewhere!
 
#2 ·
ActiveCaptain can help out with this too, as cruisers that have navigated the recently shifted shoals and leave hazard markers for those in their wake. My understanding is that periodically the ACOE and the USCG look at the hazrads reported in ActiveCaptain, and change the locations of the ATONs, or prioritize their dredging operations based on these reports.
 
#3 ·
In the first place, the official nautical charts are NOT produced for the pleasure boat industry. Therefore, wherever there is no commercial traffic (as in much of the ICW these days) nobody is going to be spending any time or money updating those charts any time soon.
Secondly, as most commercial traffic channels are in the neighborhood of 30' feet deep or more, it is unlikely that enough sand or mud has shifted enough to affect these lanes.
So, for your needs things like Active Captain, forums and local knowledge are going to be your best source for updated information on changes in the small craft channels, usually coming at someone's expense.
Charts of non commercial areas are only a guide for us small craft operators, so relying on them as gospel can be a huge mistake. Sometimes intuition and a gut feeling can save one from catastrophe.
The USCG does publish Notices to mariners periodically, but again the primary emphasis is on commercial waterways.
 
#4 ·
The USCG does publish Notices to mariners periodically, but again the primary emphasis is on commercial waterways.
Every week. See Maritime Safety Information

Click on "Subscribe to NtM" on the left side two-thirds of the way down and you can get them by email.
 
#6 ·
There is no chance that I would rely on any crowd sourcing for navigation.

I use official sources, and wouldn't crew on a boat or with a "skipper" that uses Active Captain or Navionics for either primary or back up navigation.

When I read the title of this thread, I thought you were going to talk about paper charts.
 
#9 ·
[yawn...]
 
#21 ·
Active Captain tells me places to be careful that I might not have known about. I never would say to myself "No need to pay attention on this stretch because Active Captain didnt have any warnings". It can only make me more careful than I need to be - it never makes me less.

And yes, sailing is a crowd sourced activity. Over the course of history sailors have tried lots of different things. Those that worked they talked about to their friends. We just have a better info system now. Apparently, we also still have people who refuse to pay attention to their friends.
 
#23 ·
Active Captain..... {snip}......It can only make me more careful than I need to be - it never makes me less.......
Well said. This point is lost on Jammer and other neophyte critics of modern information sharing. Have you ever heard what they do use for information?

Since this thread is about updating charts, here's a pic of the source box on the "official" NOAA chart for one of the most popular cruising grounds in the US, Narragansett Bay. Chart 13223. The most recent data is 5 years old and some of the anchorages are 50 to 100+ years old. This is entirely typical of all charts.

I know of a boat that grounded in B3. While that's not "official" information, it would cause me to be more careful there.

Text Font Line Parallel Number
 
#22 ·
The crowds just elected President-Elect Trump.

But yes, you should absolutely bet your life, your boat and your family on what they say.
 
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#24 ·
But yes, you should absolutely bet your life, your boat and your family on what they say.
At this point we all know how you feel. Your unsubstantiated arguments that ignore real issues have convinced no one.
 
#25 ·
What you all do when there is no crowd sourced information?..Maybe have to talk to the thai fisherman to go up into the boonies? You guys make me laugh...
 
#27 ·
Well, it is a pretty junky boat that can't take the odd low speed grounding. Grounding a cruising boat at slow speed should be nothing more than a minor inconvenience in my opinion. Shoot, lots of people let their boats dry out at low tide.

For hundreds of years bottom jobs were done by letting the tide go out and careening.

I hope they can make boats now with modern materials as well as a bunch of illiterate Basque fishermen could in 1650.
 
#30 ·
I approve of Active Captain.

It's the bowline, monkey's fist and sextant all rolled up into one, simple observation.

It's the most useful litmus test I've had for seamanship in twenty years.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I have an interesting and fairly well documented Active Captain Story, that shows some of the weaknesses of Active Captain in my opinion. First, I want to say it again, I use Active Captain, I like it and I think Jeff and Karen do a good job. In this case though, I wasn't thrilled with the results.

There was an island I wanted to check out, called "Adelaide Island" in the Thousand Islands. No matter where I looked I couldn't get depth information. The chart had nothing, the cruising guide had nothing, Active Captain had nothing. In the end I used Aeventyr60's trick. I went and spoke to somebody, not just any body, but the Captain of the Parks Canada maintenance tug, who I considered to be a good source of information, because we had actually gone to school together. He told me he only drew 3 feet but he thought there would be lots of water for me and told me it's a soft bottom any way. I decided to give it a shot, because I wanted to check out this island. Well my buddy was right about one thing- there was a soft bottom.

I submitted a review to AC, which was not posted (one of 2 disqualified reviews from this trip alone), it was actually Karen that emailed me, I didn't ask why my review wasn't being posted, but I assumed it was the regular reason, I never actually stayed at this dock and it's against the rules to post a review of a location you haven't actually stayed at (silly rule in my opinion).

Here is a copy and paste of the entire review that currently exists of the island I draw 4'8":

"CA Provincial Park.40 foot dock and mooring field. The docl is located at 44.4352 N, 075.8397 W.Beautiful sunrise and sunset view of Singer Castle. Excellent fishing. Docking on the south side can get very rough when the ships pass. Good anchorage on the south side of the island.The moorings have less than 6 feet of water, take great care."

Here is a video of me not staying the night at Adelaide Island (thus disqualifying my review). Reference minute 6:40 ish, this video can be a bit of a bore because it is intended as a video review- not entertainment for the sake of entertainment, so I wouldn't fault any body for skipping ahead to 6:40ish where I decide not to stay on the island.

 
#40 · (Edited)
....There was an island I wanted to check out, called "Adelaide Island" in the Thousand Islands. No matter where I looked I couldn't get depth information. The chart had nothing, the cruising guide had nothing, Active Captain had nothing.

{snip}

Here is a copy and paste of the entire review that currently exists of the island I draw 4'8":

"CA Provincial Park.40 foot dock and mooring field. The docl is located at 44.4352 N, 075.8397 W.Beautiful sunrise and sunset view of Singer Castle. Excellent fishing. Docking on the south side can get very rough when the ships pass. Good anchorage on the south side of the island.The moorings have less than 6 feet of water, take great care."
There seems to be some pretty serious confusion here. You said there was nothing in AC, but then posted information from AC. Took me quite a bit to find this place, as the above coordinates are significantly incorrect (I know you didn't post them). This is the actual location 44°26'N 075°50'W

There is no Red marina review icon on Adelaide Island, which must be what you meant. If you tried to add one, but didn't actually stay there, I think AC policy not to allow it makes complete sense.

What you quoted was the Notes section from a Blue local knowledge icon, which describes the inlet to the island. This would be exactly where you would note your draft and the grounding, which looked to be next to the docks. You click on that box and edit the notes. It's just for simple facts, not opinions, like a review. I would add to the bottom of what is there... "I draw 4'8" and grounded just before reaching the dock". Nothing more. The Notes currently says "less than 6 ft of water" which is accurate.

Finally, the coordinates in the post to get you to the dock must have a typo, but the coordinates that automatically populate the Position box for the Local Knowledge icon, look correct. I would edit the marina location too, if you know the actual marina coordinates.

You should be allowed to edit the Notes box on the Local Knowledge icon, with nothing more than better info. If you somehow tried to create a Marina icon and/or write an opinion review, I get why it was rejected.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I agree with your Comments, SVauspicious. As you can see, I was not writing my review based on other internet reviews, I was definitely there, well, almost there


Edit #2 I think I made the mistake in both cases of saying in the review that I didn't actually stay at either place, which is a clear violation of their rules, which Jeff pointed out to me in the other scenario. However, in both cases I did not stay due to water depth issuues, which I would like to see captured some how.
 
#38 ·
I would think that the "Gunkholing" deep up a river, with hazard info and reasons for not stating in a spot kinda information would be more important then marina type info...but then that's just me....
 
#39 ·
I like that.

Active Captain and Trump.

The Populist Kool-Aid.
 
#41 ·
Yes, I agree, there was significant confusion on my part, as how to effectively capture the information.

If you are interested, reference Mulcaster Island where I had stayed two nights previous at 44*20.517N 076*02.969'W (at least those are the co-ordinates given on AC).

This is a nearly identical facility to the one on Adelaide, a 40' pay per use, Parks Canada dock, with a composting head and honour system pay box. If anything, the facility at Mulcaster is smaller, as it doesn't have the 6 permanent mooring balls.

Mulcaster does have a red marina box with 3 reviews. I'm not sure what makes Adelaide different, aside from the fact not many people go to Adelaide because they are worried about the exposure from the south, the wakes off passing ships and the shallow water.

Yes, I agree, there was some information on Adelaide, but "less than 6' in the mooring field" doesn't tell me if I can get into the dock with 4'8".
 
#45 · (Edited)
Our plan was to leave on a rising tide and tie up or anchor out before falling tide(s) in the area we where in while on the ICW. Also listening to radio traffic ahead of us gave us the most up to date conditions. However..Active Captains was a great source for issues to be aware of..which was bundled in Garmin's Blue Charts and with internet access updated every 15 minutes.. FYI..we are in areas of 8+ tides and with a full moon it's even greater.
 
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