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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 01-21-2007
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T34C has a spectacular aura about T34C has a spectacular aura about T34C has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tartan34C
I also think this is the type of subject that deteriorates into nonsense very quickly and should be dropped
Truer words have never been spoken!

I think G- and SD- have raised some very good points. I think anyone venturing offshore or even just away from home port for any extended time should have pre-prepared hatch covers that can be used to cover broken hatches, portlights, and don't forget cockpit lockers and the companionway hatch.
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2007
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I have found that many portlights, even in classed boats, have the flange on the inside of the hull/house and are not through bolted but installed with self tapping screws. These portlights WILL be pushed a wave. Don't assume that because there is a flange around your portlight on the outside of the hull/house that this flange is an integral part of the portlight, in some instances it is just a dress/trim flange.

It is a good practice to have shutters cut, marked and ready to install. It might even be a good idea to install some of the shutters prior to an ocean passage. Aluminum plates are often used.

...
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2007
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sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
Emergency steering, Manual Bilge pumps, spare sealed battery-including the terminals-in case downflooding shorts out electrics. Rescue is not an option for purposes of this discussion-what do you need? Think, think, think.
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2007
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
I also forgot, but this really depends on the igenuity and the extent of the damage. The jury rig, as you call it.

By experience I have seen how hard and critical a dismasting can be.

The few seconds after it happens, and no one knows what is happening are terrifying, specially at night and in seas/winds.

The fear, the scare, followed by complete lost of sense of what is going on is terrible...one never knows what hit us...and how...

Next, as the adrenalin flows away, and you try to do your best, you need to start thinking the pros and cons of your decisions.Start the engine??? yes?? No???

Often in a dismasting, shrouds, halyards, sails, all "travel" underneath the boat. Now start the engine and you're done, don't start you're done.

CUT CUT CUT CUT throw away what you can't salvage (save as much shroud and halyard to help you later...don't start throwing stuff to the sea...you might need it.
Depending on the seas and the boat conditions, save all you can, just in case.

Then hopefully the **** will sink, then start the engine, and pray nothing there.....

OK nothing there....how do we get home??? We sailors (the ones that go to sea) all have a little McGyver inside, some ingenuity, rig a spinnaker pole, hoist it as a mast, use one of the saved halyards, sail back home with that!!!

A good spare pole, extra boom, whatever you can use to make a jury rig...

OK we're home....next, a spare rudder, how to get home if it's gone???

It's all seamanship and experience that only the sea can give you....

I'm poethic today!!!
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2007
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You should also exclude abandoning ship as an option if you want to focus on the boat.

A small riding sail, or staysail could prove very valuable to jury rig your way back home.
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2007
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T, my opinion is

While this **** floats I'll stay here.....once it decides to go meet Leonardo DiCaprio, then I'll move to the "tent".

Its easier to find a 42' white hull then a 6'red tent!!! Besides, shark don't like fiberglass.

Its not in vane they say the captain is the last one....
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Old 01-21-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailaway21
We've seen two instances in the last month where sailors departed their vessel while the vessel was still afloat. In either case I suspect that Capt. Bligh would have found either vessel to be far superior to that to which he was consigned. Is all of our attention focused on rescue, to the detriment of giving up the ship? From those who venture far offshore I'd be interested in what you've outfitted in these areas and others. Thanks in advance.
An interesting take on this is the terrifying but educational "Rescue in the Pacific" http://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Pacific.../dp/0070213674

which I heartily recommend. Although the story takes place in 1994, most of the technological fixes available to us now were available then in less flashy form. Without giving much away, the "post mortem" of a weather bomb that caught nine mid-sized yachts on passage concluded that EPIRBs were of far greater value than liferafts in certain extreme conditions; that variations of white are essentially stupid colours for yachts in storms; and that while a surprising number of the nine yachts endured punishing dismastings (shroud cutters come after EPIRBs in "crucial storm gear"), five abandoned boats continued to float, some of which grounded on reefs and others that were recovered and/or salvaged.

It appears that many of today's vessels are in fact well-found, but that their design in a heavy seaway can rapidly fatigue the crew to the point of deadly exhaustion. Not many sailors today can heave to, it seems (not that this was an option in some of the more insane conditions), and not many boats are readily capable of heaving to, either.
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Old 01-21-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta

Truth is, if one of my hatches goes, and the weather hits, I am done. So after this, I am going to make wood plates for my hatches, just in case.
Giuletta, your English is pretty good, considering all the unusual nautical terms you have had to learn.

I have a steel boat with only two small (7 x 14 inch) recessed hatches in the aft transom. I have two similar opening hatches, one in the head, and one in the galley. The other portlights are covered in solid 1/2" Lexan, gasketed and through-bolted. I have two Atkins and Hoyle 20 x 20 inch hatches with teak coamings on the cabin top, and a 24" x 24" solid steel hatch with a four inch coaming in the forepeak, which has a small tempered glass opening hatch. The forepeak is separated from the saloon by a collision bulkhead, watertight save for some pluggable limber holes.

The pilothouse is very bright, but again, here only the center "windshield" is openable, and two small hatches in the pilothouse roof. The rest is sealed by 1/2" Lexan portlights. I have to create storm shutters for these.

The pilothouse can be sealed by gasketed doors from both the aft cabin and the saloon (the two "downstairs" areas). The pilothouse also has large and usually sealed scuppers so that if the companionway boards are stove in, the inrushing water should not get into the rest of the boat nor into the engine compartment directly below.

This area can get very hot, admittedly, in summer, although a cross-breeze is easily obtained in good weather. Besides making storm shutters, I have to weld up a stronger companionway hatch (the sliding hatch is fine) that is beefier than just a single piece of smoke-grey 1/4 Lexan with a teak strip. I need 1/2" dropboards and stronger slots to drop them in. The top dropboard could conceivably have a vent to increase airflow.

Speaking of vents, I am persuaded that running all water and fuel tank vents to the top of the pilothouse to a gooseneck or "U" fitting is a good idea. Waterline vents can easily fill on a heavy heel and promote contamination.
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2007
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Some ideas are easy to latch onto and get discussed quite a bit on groups like this. You donít need to be too smart to realize that carrying some plywood, wire clips and some wire can be useful. I go at a little differently and spend a lot of time daydreaming about all the possibilities and making notes. I work the problem every way that I can think of. I look at each piece of gear and consider how important it is and what I would do if it broke. What tools and parts do I need to fix or fashion a replacement for each and every piece of gear and system on the boat. Do I even need that piece of gear or can I fall back to using some other method to get that job done. Do you need to carry a spare assembly or part for the things you canít fix on board such as an alternator or radio?

I donít just think that having a way to close up a port or hatch is important but I look at what things are on the boat that I can use as raw material to do the job and I plan everything out in advance. I try to consider every contingency and have a plan in advance to handle it. And that plan includes having the tools and parts needed for the solution. Getting into the thick of it and then trying to plan a fix using what you might have on board isnít the way to get the job done. Planning ahead is the way to get the job done. And funny enough I think planning ahead also prepares you for the unexpected.

I donít think it helps to just put up a spreadsheet with a list of parts because each boat and trip is different. Each skipper has a different skill set and will want to fix things in a way thatís consistent with his own skills. I think you need enough experience to make a plan and decide for yourself whatís needed for a trip based on how you sail and work. It also makes a big difference what equipment you have on board. One of the things that will set you apart from others is whether or not you can think ahead and formulate an overall plan for the trip. Having this skill might be one of the indications that you are ready to go offshore.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2007
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An excellent philosophy Tartan34.

I am a little perplexed at the "inability" to heave to cited. The Pardey's seem to feel that the skills and tools to do so are essential.

A great number of merchant ships find that heaving-to with sea on the quarter provides the best relief, particularly for the modern design container ships. They roll deeply but safely, and avoid slamming, with the resultant panting of bow frames, encountered when faces seas bow on. Probably of little relevance to sail boats. Sailboats, on the other hand, do not have the structural stresses that large ships encounter.
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