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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 08-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Sailingdog, let's keep the gummint out of this. I can just see it now, next year they will pass an addition to ColRegs requiring all boats in navigable waters to carry an anchor weighing ten pounds per foot of boat. You know, like a 350# anchor for a 35' boat.

Great for the anchor business, great for the winch business. Great for chiropractors, too, who are getting shut out of insurance plans.
I did suggest using lawyers to implement it instead...

Quote:
I suppose you could put in a stealth call to the local USCG station and suggest that a large raft with no visibly adequate anchorage was a clear and present danger, and ask them to come over and make some suggestions before sunset. Put personally, I think I'd rather make a fresh pot of coffee and then get the hell out of Dodge. (Or call Captain Nemo to just come sink them.)
I like the proactive approach of calling Capt. Nemo, but then you have all those people in the water thrashing around and other wise disturbing your peace and quiet. And some might want to sit on your boat...so then you have univited guests. Of course, if they're very pretty women...then that might not be so bad...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #12  
Old 08-13-2007
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Unfortunately, a large number of boaters think that "scope" keeps their breath fresh.
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Old 08-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slooptattoo View Post
Unfortunately, a large number of boaters think that "scope" keeps their breath fresh.
And rode is something you do hard, prior to putting away wet.
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  #14  
Old 08-13-2007
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A not so bright co-worker, you know...that guy that knows everything but really doesn't know S, told me a story once about his anchoring experience. He used to own a 30 some foot Bayliner, and that gave him the authority to tell me how to do everything boating related once he found out I own a vessel. I'm the type of person to sit there and listen with glee while people reveal just how much they don't know. Well, I had told him that over one weekend I had went down to Still Pond, Md. and had a nice time. He proceded to tell me that there is no good anchoring in Still Pond.

He "once had three anchors out and was still dragging all over the place once the wind got up to 20MPH". Yes...three anchors...and yes MPH, not knots. So I ask him how he had his three anchors set, and what kind of anchors he had.

He had three "regular" anchors that were "about this big" (holds up hands about 12" apart), and an "about 10lb." mushroom anchor, each with "about 50ft of rope". After some interrogation a "regular" anchor was revealed to be a danforth (the one with the pointy flukes that kinda swivel). All anchors were set off the bow. So this idiot has three woefully undersized anchors with way to little "rope" (after a few more questions it was discovered that he had no chain at all) all tangled to hell. No wonder there isn't any good holding in Still Pond.

He is the guy that we all have to look out for, and those like him. Lucky for us on the northern bay he no longer has his Bayliner. Watch out for Biff (names have been changed to protect the identity of the stupid) on his late model 30'+ go fast as he tosses that dinky 10 lb. mushroom into the water.
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Old 08-13-2007
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"I did suggest using lawyers to implement it instead... "

I like that idea, SD. Using lawyers as ground tackle has its attractions...
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  #16  
Old 08-13-2007
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Interesting night TJK. I honestly, honestly, listen to the VHF every morning and in the evening when on the hook. It does not take long. I guess, in addition to learning your ground tackle, learning to listen to the weather will help to stop those very instances.

- CD

PS I have been there too!!
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
"I did suggest using lawyers to implement it instead... "

I like that idea, SD. Using lawyers as ground tackle has its attractions...
That's an approach I didn't think of, but generally, the lawyers are too full of hot air to sink properly... so you usually have to give them some good lead overshoes.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 08-14-2007
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Well...that's why I usually go where the other boats AREN'T. The admiral and I thought about going down for this event, but I was leery of being part of a raft. I asked the admiral, what if we're rafted up and then a t-storm pops up? Aren't we at the mercy of the weakest link in that chain, of which there could be several?

The downside, of course, is we missed out on the camraderie of the other sailors. What the heck, maybe next year we'll go (but not raft).

SCOPE: I shake my head at a lot of behaviors out on the water, and people anchoring without enough scope is one of those behaviors. More often than not I'll see a power or sailboat anchored and the rode is at about 45 degrees to the water, meaning they have a 2 to 1 scope at best? I'm mystified by the mindset that can be so happily ignorant. Take a course. Read Chapman's...keep it on board and refer to it often. Geeesh.

Still ranting: I'm amazed too at the boaters who have been on the water for 20 + years, and look at you funny when you suggest a 7:1 scope. They'll say, "aw, Chapman's is for the navy...a scope like that is just for hurricanes". I don't get it...screwin' up out on the water ain't fun.

And no, the guvment isn't going to solve it.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2007
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I'm amazed too at the boaters who have been on the water for 20 + years, and look at you funny when you suggest a 7:1 scope.

Siamese...your comment got me thinking a bit about scope with TODAY's generation of anchors. When I started sailing about 35 years ago, the 7:1 scope for a chain/rope rode was standard...but of course the anchor technology back then was pretty much CQR or Danforth...neither of which do a great job in comparison to the holding power of more modern designs.
If you have a Rocna/Spade/Manson etc.... I wonder how much you can shorten your rode and still achieve the holding power of say a CQR on a 7:1 rode.
I've seen lots of data showing the holding power of the anchors using the SAME rode but nothing comparing scope reuirements for the same holding power. Anyone have any data?

Related question...Are there differences BETWEEN the modern anchors on this considering the difference in the angle of pull? For example...does a Spade work better on a short scope than a Manson?
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2007
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There were some tests, and some of the newer designs did quite well, even at 3:1 scope. I'd have to see if I can dig them up... don't believe it was on-line but in a magazine sometime in the last year.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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