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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 08-14-2007
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Siamese is on a distinguished road
I threw 7:1 scope out there as sort of an example...of course there's a lot that goes into how much scope is right for a given situation.

Here's the part that mystifies me though. What so difficult about letting out another hundred feet of rode? You're already on the bow, you've already got that heavy thing sitting on the bottom, you're already backin' up the boat, and you've got plenty of rode at the ready. Let it out dagnabbit. Is it because it's hard to retreive when you're ready to go (my boat's 31 feet and 5 tons and retrieval's a piece of cake)? Man, I get a lot of peace of mind from a good scope. (uh oh...ranting again).
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2007
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The Title of this thread would make for a great name for a horror movie ...
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2007
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"what if we're rafted up and then a t-storm pops up? "
I've never actually seen a t-storm "pop up". Seen it come over the horizon, or sneak up after dark. Felt the temperature drop as I sailed through a front line. Seen the barometer drop before one comes through.
Don't think I'd want to raft up to anything unless I'd seen the wx radar and visually confirmed there was no front line and no storm activity anyplace within ten hours of me. Otherwise, dinner, dessert, see'ya it's time to spread out for the night.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2007
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
"What so difficult about letting out another hundred feet of rode?"

...Other boats in a crowded harbor on shorter scopes. Hence my question on short scope with modern anchors.
BTW...if you let out 100+ feet in 10ft of water (i.e. 10:1+ scope) you are effectively preventing others from using the anchorage as it fills up...ONE of my real pet peeves is boats in crowded harbors that do that and then yell at you for anchoring too close (they always do). I like to anchor in front of those boats on a normal scope and then tell them to take in some rode if they complain!
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2007
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So you knowingly anchor inside of someone elses swing radius because you think they have to much rode out?
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2007
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Last week, in Maine, we were caught out in a stronger-than-predicted cold front passage. We were anchored in Pulpit Harbor, North Haven...my favorite anchorage in Penobscot Bay. It is totally protected in all directions....except NW.

At about 10PM the winds started to blow from the W then NW. The predicted 15-25 knot winds quickly increased to 40 knots plus in gusts (on my anemometer and as confirmed by other vessels in the same anchorage). They blew at this strength for 10 hours, all through the night, and only abated at 0800 next morning. Good timing, 'cause I had to take Max ashore for a run and a pee and was wondering how we were gonna do it in the wildly bobbing inflatable.

I stood anchor watch in the cockpit all night, as did many other folks in the anchorage. There was nowhere to go...all boats at anchor had a rough night of it. For the first few hours of 40-knot plus winds I ran the engine at idle, partly as insurance (since there was a hostile lee shore not far away) and partly to charge the batteries fully while I watched to see how the anchor gear would do.

We were anchored with a 45lb genuine CQR which has been a faithful companion for 18 years, in 30-40' of water (an 8.3' tide), with 30 fathoms of 3/8" HT chain and two 20' 1/2" nylon snubbers. Holding in Pulpit Harbor is pretty good, in thick mud/clay. No issues; we didn't budge all night.

On anchor watch, I monitored our position on the GPS/PC-chart display and on radar. Turns out, the chart for this particular location appears to be about 100-150' out....it showed the boat to be about that far West of where it actually was, according to the radar and to my visual bearings. Positioning was critical, because of the aforementioned lee shore.

At first light, about 5AM, we moved further into the anchorage looking for a spot with at least some protection. There really wasn't any, but we dropped the hook in a good spot ahead of a beautiful little schooner.

Not a night I care to repeat, but all turned out OK.

Lessons:

1. Stay the h___ out of Pulpit Harbour in any forecast cold front passage where NW winds could build very uncomfortable conditions inside.

2. Even the "old" anchors work just fine in good holding ground with proper rode and scope. I had two larger ones and the engine as insurance, but didn't need them.

3. Despite such occasional annoyances, cruising in Maine is GREAT!

Bill
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2007
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Yeah, Hellosailor, "pops up". Or do you prefer, "arrives as predicted", "occurs slowly", "enters our area"? EDITED...Personal Attacks not Permitted..CAM

Last edited by Siamese; 08-14-2007 at 11:23 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-14-2007
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Well, Siamese, there's a huge difference between something that "pops up" and a predictable event. That's why the government charts refer to "the prudent sailor" because anyone who can be surprised and endangered by a large, predictable event...probably should be playing gold, not sailing.

If that surprises you, you're going to have some fun on the water.

And please note, making personal attacks on other forum members and calling them "jerks" or anything else, is against the forum rules. A moderator could ban you from the forum is you keep that up. Poke me again, and I'll bring it to their attention.

You don't have to like my opinions or agree with them, but the folks who run this place require you to keep a civil tongue--or be gone.
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  #29  
Old 08-14-2007
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Just to clarify a couple of things,
In my original post I stated that
we knew that thunderstorms were a possiblity.
The forecast called for scattered thunder storms. We expected them.
I was not part of the large raft off.
We were anchored on the other side from the large raft off.
But in fact, the 15 or so boats in that raft actually faired the storm fine.
It was the small raft of three power boats that started the whole thing.

We were simply spectators.

I agree, in that situation, if you did not know that storms were approaching, than you must have had your head up your ###.
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  #30  
Old 08-14-2007
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camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Sapper...you said:
So you knowingly anchor inside of someone elses swing radius because you think they have to much rode out?

I know that sounds stupid...but here is the full story. It takes place in Marsh Harbor in the Bahmas which is a shallow and VERY crowded anchorage whenever a front is scheduled to pass through as everyone on surrounding Cays comes in for shelter.
There was a guy there who used to come in to the center of the anchorage and lay down 150'+ of chain, and yell at anyone who came within that circle. This was in 7-8 feet of water where even 100 ft. would have been overkill. It was also not a one time thing. If someone wants to anchor with 15:1 scope in a deserted anchorage...no problem...but not in a crowded harbor where there is not enough protected room for everyone and when laying out twice as much rode as is necessary for storm conditions means you've taken up the space that four other boats could have used. So YES...I anchored in front of him on about 80 ft. and waited for him to yell at me...which he did...and then I told him to get stuffed...and that I would cut his rode if he swung into me. He pulled his anchor and moved the boat...which was my plan! I knew he couldn't stand it from past experience & didn't care if he thought I was an ass. Would not be my normal procedure but sometimes you just have to take a stand.
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