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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #31  
Old 08-14-2007
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While we are on the subject of anchoring I have a question. I own an O'Day 302, Displacement is 7,200 lbs, the anchor is a Danforth style #20 with 16 ft of 3/8 chain and 200 ft 1/2 in 3 strand nylon rope. When I anchor I let out a 7:1 or 8:1 scope in calm waters, then add a sentinel of 20 lbs of lead to a depth of about 2 ft from the bottom. In ruff water or high wind a scope of 10:1 and the sentinel along with a #8 mushroom anchor. I do have a second danforth style slip ring anchor about 15 lbs with 14 ft of 5/16 in chain and 150 ft of 1/2 in rope which I have not used.
Am I anchoring ok for Long Island Sound and surrounding area? Or do I need to do better.

Dennis
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  #32  
Old 08-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Sapper...you said:
So you knowingly anchor inside of someone elses swing radius because you think they have to much rode out?

I know that sounds stupid...but here is the full story. It takes place in Marsh Harbor in the Bahmas which is a shallow and VERY crowded anchorage whenever a front is scheduled to pass through as everyone on surrounding Cays comes in for shelter.
There was a guy there who used to come in to the center of the anchorage and lay down 150'+ of chain, and yell at anyone who came within that circle. This was in 7-8 feet of water where even 100 ft. would have been overkill. It was also not a one time thing. If someone wants to anchor with 15:1 scope in a deserted anchorage...no problem...but not in a crowded harbor where there is not enough protected room for everyone and when laying out twice as much rode as is necessary for storm conditions means you've taken up the space that four other boats could have used. So YES...I anchored in front of him on about 80 ft. and waited for him to yell at me...which he did...and then I told him to get stuffed...and that I would cut his rode if he swung into me. He pulled his anchor and moved the boat...which was my plan! I knew he couldn't stand it from past experience & didn't care if he thought I was an ass. Would not be my normal procedure but sometimes you just have to take a stand.
Cam,
Thanks for the backround........it did sound bad on your part without the full story. No harm no foul, just wanted to make sure that wasn't a bad habit of yours.
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  #33  
Old 08-14-2007
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Denby...I would not be comfortable in a squall with that set up...particularly with a Danforth "STYLE" anchor. Look at some of the charts on the anchoring threads about holding power and note that you need 4x the holding power in 40 knots as you do in 20.
If you go to a different style anchor you will probably need to add some chain but kellets don't do much good once the wind really picks up. Your territory has a lot of rocky bottoms that would be better served by a more robust hook even though the danforth will work in lesser winds.
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  #34  
Old 08-14-2007
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Sapper...once I read my original post I realized how stupid it sounded without a full explanation. Normally I just pull up BEHIND another boat and a bit off to one side...and then I have nothing to worry about unless he is on 3:1 scope!! (g)
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  #35  
Old 08-15-2007
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Cam,
I understand where you are coming from in your desire to know the true performance of modern yachting anchors. But I do find the asking of the question somewhat unsettling, as the majority of anchoring "failures" are pretty reliably viewed as being exercises in either poor anchor setting or inadequate scope. There are many decent, if not so modern, designs out there that will serve one more than adequately, if properly deployed. Any trend towards, "I need less scope because I've got Bottom Gripper IV" should, in my opinion, be avoided. I am quite convinced that the next 500 anchor dragging incidents I read about will place in the ninetieth percentile of involving the above two factors. So, Shhhhhh on the idea. (g)

As far as I'm concerned, I'm perfectly willing to perpetuate the rumour that the Queen Mary, in Long Beach, CA, is actually anchored to a 5-7x depth scope with a crew prepared to pay out more. I do not let the fact that she is ensconsed in concrete alongside interfere with the telling of the tale. (vbg)
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  #36  
Old 08-15-2007
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Even a 20 lb. Danforth is not an ideal choice for a primary anchor, since they generally don't do well in shifting winds or currents. Fluke type anchors also have a lot of trouble resetting once they pull out... and can kite along if the boat gets any speed dragging. Also, having anchors of all the same type is generally a waste of money IMHO. If a 20 lb. Danforth has a problem holding in a given anchorage, the chance that a lighter Danforth will be of any use is very doubtful.

I would recommend that you go out and get a decent size next generation anchor: like a Rocna, Spade, Buegel, Manson Supreme, or Bulwagga; or a Delta. Something about 30-35 lbs., rather than what you've got now, and use it as your primary anchor with 30' of 5/16" G4 high-test chain and 150-200' of 9/16" nylon. That will probably be sufficient to hold your boat even in a serious blow. Keep the 20 lb. Danforth as kedge or secondary anchor.

Get rid of the other anchors, the sentinels and the mushroom anchor. It is pretty well known that when you really need the holding power, a sentinel isn't going to really be contributing anything to the holding power of the anchor, since the rode will be taut, and the sentinel will just be chafing along it.

Just remember, if the guys at the marina are laughing at how big the anchor on your bow roller is... chances are you're finally getting one that is about the right size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by denby View Post
While we are on the subject of anchoring I have a question. I own an O'Day 302, Displacement is 7,200 lbs, the anchor is a Danforth style #20 with 16 ft of 3/8 chain and 200 ft 1/2 in 3 strand nylon rope. When I anchor I let out a 7:1 or 8:1 scope in calm waters, then add a sentinel of 20 lbs of lead to a depth of about 2 ft from the bottom. In ruff water or high wind a scope of 10:1 and the sentinel along with a #8 mushroom anchor. I do have a second danforth style slip ring anchor about 15 lbs with 14 ft of 5/16 in chain and 150 ft of 1/2 in rope which I have not used.
Am I anchoring ok for Long Island Sound and surrounding area? Or do I need to do better.

Dennis
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 08-15-2007 at 12:43 AM.
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  #37  
Old 08-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Even a 20 lb. Danforth is not an ideal choice for a primary anchor, since they generally don't do well in shifting winds or currents. Fluke type anchors also have a lot of trouble resetting once they pull out... and can kite along if the boat gets any speed dragging. Also, having anchors of all the same type is generally a waste of money IMHO. If a 20 lb. Danforth has a problem holding in a given anchorage, the chance that a lighter Danforth will be of any use is very doubtful.

I would recommend that you go out and get a decent size next generation anchor: like a Rocna, Spade, Buegel, Manson Supreme, or Bulwagga; or a Delta. Something about 30-35 lbs., rather than what you've got now, and use it as your primary anchor with 30' of 5/16" G4 high-test chain and 150-200' of 9/16" nylon. That will probably be sufficient to hold your boat even in a serious blow. Keep the 20 lb. Danforth as kedge or secondary anchor.

Get rid of the other anchors, the sentinels and the mushroom anchor. It is pretty well known that when you really need the holding power, a sentinel isn't going to really be contributing anything to the holding power of the anchor, since the rode will be taut, and the sentinel will just be chafing along it.

Just remember, if the guys at the marina are laughing at how big the anchor on your bow roller is... chances are you're finally getting one that is about the right size.
Hmmmmm! I think you may have explained my recent situation with my anchor setup not holding. (remember the undroppable genoa story )

I had used an oversized modified Danforth style anchor (Chene) with a 14# sentinel and 20' of heavy chain rode for years without any issue. I can't say that I had experienced heavy weather but it had held in 20-30 knot gusts and in heavy river/ebb current. But as you may recall, it didn't hold when my Genoa was catching wind. It sounds like what must have happened is that the Danforth was likely "kiteing along" and not settling to the seafloor to get a bite of anything?

I wonder if you might offer a suggestion of an anchor type that would settle more quickly and still be able to hold in the fine sandy bottom I have around here. (i.e. claw/grapple type anchors are USELESS).
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  #38  
Old 08-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiXeVeN View Post
I wonder if you might offer a suggestion of an anchor type that would settle more quickly and still be able to hold in the fine sandy bottom I have around here. (i.e. claw/grapple type anchors are USELESS).
I did recommend several anchors...
Quote:
I would recommend that you go out and get a decent size next generation anchor: like a Rocna, Spade, Buegel, Manson Supreme, or Bulwagga; or a Delta. Something about 30-35 lbs., rather than what you've got now, and use it as your primary anchor with 30' of 5/16" G4 high-test chain and 150-200' of 9/16" nylon. That will probably be sufficient to hold your boat even in a serious blow. Keep the 20 lb. Danforth as kedge or secondary anchor.
BTW, I was down at the marina today and went out on a friend's 31' Silverton to run a couple of tests... using my 35 lb. Rocna. We were able to get it to set in the mud bottom at two-to-three knots... we would have tried faster, but he was afraid of damaging his boat. In normal use, I've found it sets within about 4-5'.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #39  
Old 09-13-2007
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It was a beautiful day out on the water.
I had anticipated and I was well aware of the forecast of "Scattered Thunderstorms Overnight."
We were in a protected anchorage.
The second day of the weekend was again a beautiful sunny day.

I am not about to let a few thunderstorms ruin our weekend.

And I guess I must reiterate, we had no problem during the whole ordeal. Our anchor held just fine. We were enjoying our time on board. My wife was sound asleep. I was watching the situation carefully.
Once again, we were off of the open water and in a protected anchorage.
We were merely spectators to the other's that had the problems.
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  #40  
Old 09-13-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBowman View Post
I am wondering why a sailor would venture out when thunderstorms are predicted? Am I missing something with the original post in this thread?
I live in the South (South Eastern US). Since March, there have been maybe a dozen days that there was no chance of T storms mentioned even though we have been in a drought. When it is hot and humid during the day and cools off some at night, there is a chance of T storms.
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