Proper Line Cleating Method - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-05-2007
Sabreman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,573
Thanks: 2
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Sabreman will become famous soon enough Sabreman will become famous soon enough
Proper Line Cleating Method

I've always understood that there is only one way to cleat a line as shown in the following link under "Cleat Hitch". Yet, I see a number of odd twists and multiple wraps that people use when cleating a line. I've observed these permutations on non-sailing vessels most often, but have seen them on sailboats too.

The questions posed to this august body are:

1. Is there only ONE proper way to cleat a line?
2. If the answer to #1 is no, then what is the benefit of the variations?

http://www.virtualvoyages.net/sailin...nb/knots.shtml

A similar question can be posed for coiling a line, but that's another thread.
__________________
Sabre 38 "Victoria"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-05-2007
danjarch's Avatar
Siren 17
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grapevine TX
Posts: 1,869
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 8
danjarch will become famous soon enough
There is defenantly more then one way to cleat a line. If you have a line that is under a lot of pressure and must be removed somewhat often, or in a hurry. You should wrap it round the horns three time. It should never be hitched. If the hitch seizes up you won't be able to release it fast. You could need to blow your sheet and not be able to
__________________
!! WARNING !! The above information is to be used by intelligent people only. If you are Stupid, could be considered a moron, or otherwise. You are instructed to disregard this information and seek the help of a licensed and bonded professional.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-05-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
That is the proper way to cleat off a line. BTW, the angle formed by the standing part of the line and the cleat body should always be less than 90˚, since if it is larger than 90˚, you've lead the line to the wrong end of the cleat and there's a much greater chance that the line can jam under a load.

IMHO, there really aren't any benefits to additional wraps of the line around the cleat or extra figure eights. They just increase the chance that the line will jam and make it much more difficult to release the line.

If you're not cleating off the line, but using the cleat to provide leverage, then you should probably do what danjarch has mentioned above... the final turn with the bitter end tucked under would be a problem to release in a hurry.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-05-2007
danjarch's Avatar
Siren 17
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grapevine TX
Posts: 1,869
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 8
danjarch will become famous soon enough
There's also a slippery hitch. This can be used under medium pressure.
__________________
!! WARNING !! The above information is to be used by intelligent people only. If you are Stupid, could be considered a moron, or otherwise. You are instructed to disregard this information and seek the help of a licensed and bonded professional.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-05-2007
ReverendMike's Avatar
Mostly Harmless
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: S. Central MO
Posts: 885
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
ReverendMike will become famous soon enough
For powerboats, which operate under different rules of course, there is a different method: wrap the line around the cleat under both horns at least three times, then make figure eights over the top until the cleat is no longer visible or you run out of line. Pile any remaining line loosely on top to help hold it in place.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"... the only matter of consequence before me is what I will do with my alloted time. I can remain on shore, paralyzed with fear, or I can raise my sails and dip and soar in the breeze." - Richard Bode, First you have to row a little boat (pg. 94)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-05-2007
danjarch's Avatar
Siren 17
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grapevine TX
Posts: 1,869
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 8
danjarch will become famous soon enough
Quote:
There really aren't any benefits to additional wraps of the line around the cleat or extra figure eights. They just increase the chance that the line will jam and make it much more difficult to release the line.
You've probably got clam cleats on your boat, but if you don't, you never hitch the sheets or the halyards. After so long under a hard load, the hitch will lock up to the point where you can't get it off. Instead of a hitch you do multible figure eights around the cleat, usualy three complete wrap in total. This gives enough friction that you don't need a hitch. It also allows you to remove one wrap at a time, by compressing the underlying line while you remove the top line. You do this untill you have just enough friction left to control the release of say the main sheet.

By the way, if you use three strand, you need to make sure that your keeping the right hand lay when ever you cleat off.
__________________
!! WARNING !! The above information is to be used by intelligent people only. If you are Stupid, could be considered a moron, or otherwise. You are instructed to disregard this information and seek the help of a licensed and bonded professional.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-05-2007
ReverendMike's Avatar
Mostly Harmless
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: S. Central MO
Posts: 885
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
ReverendMike will become famous soon enough
Dan

Having only sailed on boats with rope clutches and/or jam and cam cleats, I never even realized some of the things I don't know. Here's another one, thank you.

Mike

(edit: meaning I've never had to use a horn cleat for anything other than holding fenders and docklines, and hadn't even though about doing so - lack of exp showing)
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"... the only matter of consequence before me is what I will do with my alloted time. I can remain on shore, paralyzed with fear, or I can raise my sails and dip and soar in the breeze." - Richard Bode, First you have to row a little boat (pg. 94)

Last edited by ReverendMike; 09-05-2007 at 04:56 PM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-05-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I don't use horn cleats for the sheets on my boat. The main sheet uses a cam cleat at the base of the bottom block on a six-to-one purchase. The genoa sheets are held by the self-tailing winch jaws.

There are no clam cleats on the entire boat, with the exception of the clam cleats used for the leech lines on the sails.

I've never had a cleat hitch lock up. If you do it right, I don't believe it will lock up to the point you can't untie it. Of course, if you're using high-tech lines, which are a bit more slippery than dacron or nylon lines, you might have a problem, but I've never had one.

Also, if you do what you're saying, then you can't put two lines on the deck cleats... which are designed to be used for two lines each in normal use. Your cleating method doesn't leave enough room on the cleat for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danjarch View Post
You've probably got clam cleats on your boat, but if you don't, you never hitch the sheets or the halyards. After so long under a hard load, the hitch will lock up to the point where you can't get it off. Instead of a hitch you do multible figure eights around the cleat, usualy three complete wrap in total. This gives enough friction that you don't need a hitch. It also allows you to remove one wrap at a time, by compressing the underlying line while you remove the top line. You do this untill you have just enough friction left to control the release of say the main sheet.

By the way, if you use three strand, you need to make sure that your keeping the right hand lay when ever you cleat off.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 09-05-2007 at 04:51 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-05-2007
danjarch's Avatar
Siren 17
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grapevine TX
Posts: 1,869
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 8
danjarch will become famous soon enough
The main sail on the Liberty Clipper was something like 800 square feet. We didn't have cam cleats or winches. On all the boats I worked on, you were never allowed to put a hitch in any halyard, sheet, or falls. It was considered poor seamanship. I will say that I still don't use hitches on my own boat very often. If you need to have two lines on a small cleat, I geuss you'd have to hitch them off. We used the slippery hitch for the falls on one boat I sailed on, but I can't remember why.
__________________
!! WARNING !! The above information is to be used by intelligent people only. If you are Stupid, could be considered a moron, or otherwise. You are instructed to disregard this information and seek the help of a licensed and bonded professional.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-05-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Ummm... the line handling techniques for a tall ship with 800 sq. ft. of sail area are going to be a bit different from those used on a small boat.

However, I don't cleat off the main sheet or genoa sheets in any manner that would prevent releasing them quickly in an emergency.

In fact, while the mainsail halyard is usually cleated off normally, it will be tied off with a slipped cleat hitch if I know I'm might be dropping the mainsail soon. I won't be having to do that much longer, as I plan on installing line clutches for the halyards at the mast.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Line Sight @ Proper Course NewsReader News Feeds 0 04-08-2006 03:15 PM
Getting Good Starts, Part Two Zack Leonard Racing Articles 0 01-15-2004 07:00 PM
Getting Good Starts, Part One Zack Leonard Racing Articles 0 12-18-2003 07:00 PM
Hold That Line Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-03-2002 08:00 PM
Using Winches Safely Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 08-18-2002 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:25 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.