sailing with only jib - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 38 Old 09-23-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
sailing with only jib

Is it safe to sail with just the headsail on a fractional sloop? I've never done it and only see masthead rigs doing it for the mostpart. any help on this would be appreciated it!
Loualfr is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 38 Old 09-23-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
If your rigging is in good shape... I don't see a problem with it.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 38 Old 09-23-2007
Once known as Hartley18
 
Classic30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,798
Thanks: 45
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 9
   
Dock
It's probably safer (if it were ever in doubt) on a fractional rig in a blow than with a masthead rig because:
- The forces acting on the mast will be lower down (not at the masthead).
- Fractional rig headsails tend to be smaller than their masthead counterparts.

--Cameron
Classic30 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 38 Old 09-23-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Actually, on a fractional rig, it can be more dangerous, since the mast may not be supported at the point the forestay attaches to the mast. With a masthead rig, the backstay and forestay attach at roughly the same point on the mast and will oppose each other. As long as the rigging is in good shape, it really shouldn't matter much with either type of rig. The larger forces generated by a masthead rig's larger sail are offset by the fact that the fractional rig may lead to the mast pumping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
It's probably safer (if it were ever in doubt) on a fractional rig in a blow than with a masthead rig because:
- The forces acting on the mast will be lower down (not at the masthead).
- Fractional rig headsails tend to be smaller than their masthead counterparts.

--Cameron

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 38 Old 09-23-2007
Once known as Hartley18
 
Classic30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,798
Thanks: 45
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 9
   
Dock
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Actually, on a fractional rig, it can be more dangerous, since the mast may not be supported at the point the forestay attaches to the mast. With a masthead rig, the backstay and forestay attach at roughly the same point on the mast and will oppose each other. As long as the rigging is in good shape, it really shouldn't matter much with either type of rig. The larger forces generated by a masthead rig's larger sail are offset by the fact that the fractional rig may lead to the mast pumping.
SD, you're kidding, right? On every fractional rig I've even seen (including our own) the side-stays connect at the same point as the forestay.

Granted, the angle might not be as great as from the top of the mast to the back of the boat (a backstay) which is an optional extra on our rig, but I cannot see how you can say it "may not be supported".

--Cameron
Classic30 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 38 Old 09-24-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 50
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
No Hartley18, you must be kidding, right?

When a forestay is several feet lower than the backstay, it is unsupported to an extent. Raising the main helps counter this, but the shrouds contribute little to fore/aft support.

In a stiff blow, flying only the jib could cause weird bends in the mast, or even snap it off like mid-sheeted boom in the fun stuff.
Aasem is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 38 Old 09-24-2007
moderate?
 
camaraderie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 16
     
OK...so tell me why raising the mainsail gives support to this partially unsupported mast?
camaraderie is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 38 Old 09-24-2007
Once known as Hartley18
 
Classic30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,798
Thanks: 45
Thanked 65 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 9
   
Dock
..and since I don't have a backstay, I'd love to know how I'm going to get "weird bends in the mast".

If it was a really big blow, I could understand the shrouds parting and the whole thing going overboard, but I don't understand how the mast can be unsupported with only a jib up.

--Cameron

Last edited by Classic30; 09-24-2007 at 02:33 AM.
Classic30 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 38 Old 09-24-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 343
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Shiva is a fractional with swept back spreaders and very stout rigging. She also has runners which support the headsail and a storm jib. We've seen no problem with sailing using only a head sail, but rarely do it. Sometimes for sailing 3/4 of a mile across the harbor to the fuel dock. Roll out, roll in. Simple.

More likely we sail with only the main if we use one sail and hoist it to motor to stabilize the boat. Getting the main up is more of an ordeal.. sail cover and manual hoisting... blah blah blah

jef
sv shiva
SanderO is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 38 Old 09-24-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Beacon, New York
Posts: 652
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Considering that a storm jib can be used as the only sail under some conditions it would seem unlikely that a designer would draw something that fails just when itís most needed. Under all the conditions that I can think of just now, before my second cup of coffee that is, a main is trying to push or pull the panels of a mast out of column and that is harder on a mast then just the compression from a headsail. This assumes that the headstay pull is balanced by a jumper, running backstays or upper termination point of the upper shroud at the headstay with swept spreaders. If a particular boat is poorly designed then itís just poorly designed but offhand I canít think of a boat where I would be concerned as long as I used the running backstay, if rigged for one, and had the rig tuned properly.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
Tartan34C is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing Basics Steve Colgate Seamanship Articles 0 03-09-2003 07:00 PM
Sailing Basics Steve Colgate Her Sailnet Articles 0 03-09-2003 07:00 PM
How to Find a Good Sailing School for Your Child Michelle Potter Learning to Sail Articles 0 05-24-2000 08:00 PM
How to Find a Good Sailing School for Your Child Michelle Potter Her Sailnet Articles 0 05-24-2000 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome