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Balanced rig/weather helm

3K views 17 replies 9 participants last post by  deniseO30 
#1 ·
I think I'm getting better at tuning the rig on my boat. Last time I was out in winds over 10-15 mph the wheel wasn't much of a problem to handle. Back in June when the sheaves (not pulleys :D ) let go we were in about 25 mph wind and I was wrestling the wheel just before they let loose... Per CLUNK! (thank heavens for emergancy tiller handles :eek: )

It seems the very slightest adjustment on the backstay really makes big differances! Center of effort and all that stuff :rolleyes:

This winter I really think I want to get the headstay shortened about an inch. The turnbuckle inside the furler is all the way in and the mast still has rake I want to ease out. It's keel stepped. the boom is starting to hit the bimmin top lately too. But when I let the backstay out too much the furler binds up.

Is a backstay adjuster a good idea?
 
#2 ·
A back stay adjuster is an excellent idea. Tensioning the backstay is a good way to help depower the sails in heavy air.

It also sounds as if you need to shorten the forestay a bit. Be careful though, as shortening the forestay may require you to shorten the furling unit's foil a bit as well. YMMV.
 
#4 ·
I was in a race yesterday. Didn't really plan on placing. me who can hardly stand yet (leg/hip pain) and a friend that hasn't much experiance. But I did practice less jib in stronger winds. yes she points better. winds were about 15-20 and the helm was manageable.
 
#5 ·
Mast head rig...

I think I'm getting better at tuning the rig on my boat. Last time I was out in winds over 10-15 mph the wheel wasn't much of a problem to handle. Back in June when the sheaves (not pulleys :D ) let go we were in about 25 mph wind and I was wrestling the wheel just before they let loose... Per CLUNK! (thank heavens for emergancy tiller handles :eek: )

It seems the very slightest adjustment on the backstay really makes big differances! Center of effort and all that stuff :rolleyes:

This winter I really think I want to get the headstay shortened about an inch. The turnbuckle inside the furler is all the way in and the mast still has rake I want to ease out. It's keel stepped. the boom is starting to hit the bimmin top lately too. But when I let the backstay out too much the furler binds up.

Is a backstay adjuster a good idea?
A backstay adjuster is a good idea, but I don't think on your boat it'd have any effect on the mainsail draft, or the location of COE. Production boats like the ODay have fairly robust mast sections, sort of like telephone poles, which don't bend very easily. Given a mast head rig a backstay adjuster isn't likely to bend the mast atall. Putting the adjuster on pulls the masthead aft and straigthens the forestay which provides a few degrees of additional pointing without any speed loss. Gets you upwind faster...nice to have. Any effect on balance is likely to be in the mind, compared to the use of the other mainsail shape controls: traveller, halyard, vang, outhaul...
 
#7 ·
Given a mast head rig a backstay adjuster isn't likely to bend the mast atall.
I don't know as that's strictly true. We have (or had, anyway :mad:) a backstay adjuster on our Pearson 30, which is a masthead rig. While we didn't get near the bend you'll see on many fractional rigs, we definitely got bend. Was it enough to flatten the main enough to make much of a difference (if any)? Don't know. Was just getting to the point of experimenting with that.

Jim
 
#8 ·
Oh yes.. it bends.. Jim knows what I mean. And it does affect the mainsail trim. I think production boat builders just let the dealers do the furlers back in the day and I can bet the dealers didn't bother to really shorten headstays. Just like car dealers just want to get them off the lot with as little prepwork as possible.
Funny A guy that just got a boat because it has a new engine.. couple of months later.. water muffler goes, raw water impeller goes. (no raw water strainer) and other things. It makes you wonder.

by the way I have a new garhaurer traveler that is mounted in front of the compainion way and It's lines reach back to the wheel for single handing. I use it allot! way way better then the mainsheet wrestle!
 
#9 ·
Denise,

Do not quote me on this, but as I was working on my masthead rig over the last 2 hrs, I am recalling that a boat with roller furling, can not have an adjustable head stay, the "ONLY" way to tighten a head stay is via an adjustable back stay!

So with what the birdie in the back of my brain is telling me, to get a tighter headstay for windier conditions, you would need to do probably all the above mentioned initially, ie shorten the head stay an inch or so, along with a back stay adjuster, be it hydraulic, pulley system or a manual crank system as I have. I noticed a difference a week ago when raceing, and tenuki, crew that day, tightened the back stay in a mid 20+ knot wind. I do not have RF, but the fore/head stay is non adjustable.

marty
 
#10 ·
... or a manual crank system as I have. I noticed a difference a week ago when raceing, and tenuki, crew that day, tightened the back stay in a mid 20+ knot wind.
Don't want to hijack Denise's thread, but what kind of manual crank backstay adjuster do you have, Marty, and how do you like it? Looks like we may have to replace ours due to a screw-up on my part.

Jim
 
#13 ·
We had massive weatherhelm on the old girl to the extent that I've had her do a ninety degree turn that was uncontrollable and we very nearly t-boned another vessel. Old main sheet was very hard to let off under heavy load.

Anyway, asked rigger to look at it and we have since fitted a shorter forestay, new main sheet arrangement with extra purchase. We have actually fitted a complete new rig but that's got nothing to do with this thread.

Whereas previously we had considerable sag in the forestay it's now nice and tight and rigger has put a lot more tension on the backstay than previously.

Took her out for her first sail last weekend and...

Genoa comes off and refurls much more easily than previous. Good.
Extra bend in the mast means flatter main. Good.
Goes to windward with more power even in light airs. Good.
When it puffs what weather helm there is is very controllable. Good.
She also seems to go through waves much more smoothly with less hobby horsing. Good.

All in all it's all good but most importantly to this thread, on the riggers suggestion we did not fit a backstay adjuster. Thus far I think he is on the money.

Emphasise that we do very little if any racing. Maybe do some twilights but that would be about all.

Boat is a 34' steel VDS sloop, masthead rig.

So, Denise, I'd reckon you need to shorten your forestay and get that rig set up poperly. It's a bugger when you have a furler but to my mind it's worth the hassle.
 
#15 ·
All in all it's all good but most importantly to this thread, on the riggers suggestion we did not fit a backstay adjuster. Thus far I think he is on the money.

Emphasise that we do very little if any racing. Maybe do some twilights but that would be about all.

Boat is a 34' steel VDS sloop, masthead rig.

So, Denise, I'd reckon you need to shorten your forestay and get that rig set up poperly. It's a bugger when you have a furler but to my mind it's worth the hassle.
Particularly for a masthead rig, unless you race I'm kind of thinking the expense wouldn't be worth the performance gain one might realize. There are many, many other things of greater importance: Properly adjusted rigging, good sails and good running rigging (sheets, blocks, vang, outhaul, etc.) are far more important, IMO.

What an adjustable backstay is going to do for you on a masthead rig is to allow you to tighten the forestay (not sure how much that matters with a furler) and perhaps bend the mast a bit--perhaps allowing you to flatten the main a bit. The only time you're really going to care about that is going to wind in heavier airs, and, again, only if you're looking for those last bits of performance improvement.

Don't get me wrong: I sincerely hope I can either rescue our backstay adjuster or replace it. But I'm not going to cry (much ;)) if neither is possible.

Jim
 
#18 ·
everywhere I happen to people sailing. It seems they would rather wrestle that main sheet instead of using the traveler... Of course they need a traveler that works with lines blocks and cleats. Under anykind of load that mainsheet is really hard to loosen and not get burns.
 
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