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post #11 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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I agree, the boat (hence most of the users on this forum) is trying to do a RESCUE where the importance of visibility is for the MOB, not a RECOVERY where the importance of visibility is for the SAR pilot.
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post #12 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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I hate to disagree with you dog; but when it comes to a MOB all rules regarding what you can and can't throw overboard should be "suspended". While I understand your point that what you throw should "help" the victim; the chances are that he won't be able to swim to the horseshoe anyway.

A MOB pole is strictly for line of sight visibility from the water surface; so that's not going to help a helicopter see him; nor is it going to help him stay afloat. By all means get the MOB pole over (with a horseshoe attached) as quickly as possible; also mark MOB on your 'plotter as a waypoint immediately (some plotters have a MOB button). Don't throw every retrieval device you have in the water; you will need something for recovery also. Think about how hard it can be to see the flagstick on a golf green in poor visibility (when you know where the fairway is) and then multiply that by 10 (360 degrees). That is how difficult it could be to find a MOB pole in low visibility in a seaway.

A debris field -in addition to MOB pole- is the best way to help mark/locate a MOB because it provides a bit of a landmark and area to search around. Cockpit cushions; paper plates; styro plates; etc should go in to help mark location. The flotsam may be blown downwind of the victim so if you went directly upwind of the flotsam it should put you nearer the victim's location (relative to that flotsam). Remember that seeing ANYTHING that marks a location relative to the last known location of the victim is better than seeing nothing at all (say for example visibility of the MOB pole was lost; the debris field might be easier to find by the helicopter -when it arrives-).

JMHO/HTH...

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 01-15-2008 at 11:40 AM.
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post #13 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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Fortunately, I never carry styrofoam plates and throwing out the cockery would never occur to me as a useful MOB idea. However, I do carry a Danbuoy at the ready, along with a life sling, flashing light and a 100m of floating line, etc., etc., so I have plenty to throw at the MOB without overly poluting the environment.

I guess you styro plates advocates sail round collecting the plates again after recovering the MOB. I wouldn't want to lose my kit, it's reusable.

Jonathan-Livingston
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post #14 of 44 Old 01-15-2008 Thread Starter
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I'd bet that Idiens has a few floating Type IV cushions that he can throw overboard as well... I know I do...

For an MOB situation, I generally have aboard the boat:
  • Four Type I PFDs in safety orange I can dump overboard,
  • Three Type IV cushion type PFDs—two in Red, one Yellow
  • A Lifesling 2 mounted on the stern rail,
  • A 75' heaving line in a throw bag,
  • Three orange smoke floating canisters

and I'm in the process of making up a proper MOB pole with drogue.

I'd be interested in hearing what the styrofoam plate advocates carry on their boats...

I'd also be curious to hear how many people actually had air support for an MOB situation, versus doing the rescue using the boat.

Unfortunately, the ocean is being damaged badly because too many people think, it's only a little plastic, it'll break down soon... it won't cause much damage. That clearly isn't the case.

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post #15 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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Quote:
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Unfortunately, the ocean is being damaged badly because too many people think, it's only a little plastic, it'll break down soon... it won't cause much damage. That clearly isn't the case.
I am in complete agreement with you here, SD, and don't intend to start stocking styrofoam plates to use in COB situations myself.

AI
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post #16 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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Quote:
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I'd bet that Idiens has a few floating Type IV cushions that he can throw overboard as well...
The Admiral would not appreciate my throwing her cushions at her.....

Jonathan-Livingston
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post #17 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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Most environmentalists understand the danger plastics do to all marine life. During all the years we've boated on the ocean and coastal waterways, I've gone out of my way to pick up any plastics we see floating on the surface. I even collect the debris I find while scubadiving. This is something every boater should be conscious of. However, when crew goes overboard - don't even stop to think about saving gulls and fishes, throw over anything that floats to save a person's life.

Off-topic a bit, but the various MOB deployments mentioned for both rescue and signaling, got me thinking about another possibility, not yet mentioned. I have yet to try it - never even had a MOB situation while underway, but it is another method which could assist the victim well during this time-critical situation.

Many cruising sailors, myself included, typically tow an inflatable dinghy astern. If a quick-release snap shackle was lashed to an aft cleat and secured to a tow line eye, the dinghy could be deployed by the helmsman within seconds of a MOB call. The dinghy would be very visible and also provide stable floatation until the mothership reciprocates.

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post #18 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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TB - good thought.

My dinghy typically is on the davits, 4 part block and not quick release -able.

I do carry a bright orange kayak awarthship on my aft walkway in front of the hammock and right next to my life ring. It would be a fast toss for me (it weighs 36 pounds so I can 'shot put' it off the back). My admiral would not be able to shot put it off (thank god, I think) but it would be better than nothing if she kicked it and let it fall over (it's normally tied with a quick knot).
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post #19 of 44 Old 01-15-2008
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Another question - if it's your one true love who's gone over the side, and you fail to locate them on your own and have to call in SAR, are you going to regret NOT leaving a debris field using whatever you have available?

That being said, if you do find yourself in this situation (not as common as this discussion makes it seem) are you really going to go back and retrieve whatever you did throw overboard (styrofoam, cushion, 4 PFDs, or otherwise)?

AI
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post #20 of 44 Old 01-15-2008 Thread Starter
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TB—

That's just my point...throwing styrofoam plates overboard really don't help the person in the water to any degree and in most conditions, unless you happen to have a C130 on call circling overhead, don't really help you find the MOB in the water.

The dinghy idea is a good one, but you'd need to have a drogue of some sort on the dinghy, since it, like the styrofoam plates, will blow down much faster than an MOB, due to the difference in the amount submerged.

It would help a lot more if you had a dinghy that was a bright color... most dinghies I've seen are grey, grey-blue, blue, or black... all of which are pretty good colors to blend into the ocean on a bad day. A bright yellow or orange dinghy would be ideal.

I'm not saying that saving the MOB isn't the priority... but I think that, we sailors as a community, really need to think ahead and avoid doing anything that is basically useless and destructive to the environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue View Post
Most environmentalists understand the danger plastics do to all marine life. During all the years we've boated on the ocean and coastal waterways, I've gone out of my way to pick up any plastics we see floating on the surface. I even collect the debris I find while scubadiving. This is something every boater should be conscious of. However, when crew goes overboard - don't even stop to think about saving gulls and fishes, throw over anything that floats to save a person's life.

Off-topic a bit, but the various MOB deployments mentioned for both rescue and signaling, got me thinking about another possibility, not yet mentioned. I have yet to try it - never even had a MOB situation while underway, but it is another method which could assist the victim well during this time-critical situation.

Many cruising sailors, myself included, typically tow an inflatable dinghy astern. If a quick-release snap shackle was lashed to an aft cleat and secured to a tow line eye, the dinghy could be deployed by the helmsman within seconds of a MOB call. The dinghy would be very visible and also provide stable floatation until the mothership reciprocates.

Sailingdog

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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