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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #1  
Old 01-14-2008
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Plastic Trash

In the MOB thread, this post was made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmsbluechip View Post
...Let’s see, twenty Styrofoam plates weight about an ounce or two, they are made from hydrocarbon so that means I’ve dumped about 2 ounces of crude oil into the water. Contrary to unlearned opinion, Styrofoam does not last forever. It actually breaks down into smaller and smaller particles when exposed to UV rays, in a short period of time those plates will have disappeared. Can a body of water handle millions of tons of Styrofoam repeatedly? ...
I'd like to respond as to why MARPOL prohibits any disposal of plastic in the water with a link to a video about the subject.

LINK

While I am all for doing everything possible to recover a MOB, the idea of throwing styrofoam plates into the water strikes me as incredibly stupid. It makes far more sense to throw things into the water that will be more visible and of more use to the MOB. A danbuoy, an MOB pole, a floating strobe, a type IV PFD, a LifeSling all come to mind, and the Type IV PFD and LifeSling are usually found on most boats.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #2  
Old 01-15-2008
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I continue to be horrified by my own observations. In a typical day's sail one sees refuse every mile or so, and that's just within a strip maybe 100 m wide and only those objects that show clearly on the surface. Averaged over the oceans shows that mankind is really messing up the planet.

Of course, a MOB takes a lot of man-made fabric with him, so maybe its still worth getting back on board.
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Old 01-15-2008
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Proves that knuckleheads are allowed to own and operate boats. I can just imagine the DNR report:
"While we did locate 347 plastic plates, and the victims fingerprints were on three of them, unfortunately since a plate has about .0034 ounces of positive bouyancy they were not able to support the victim who therefore drowned. Additionally the plates were not reflective in nature and while floating about 1/10 of an inch above the surface were only visible from three feet away and therefore were no help in locating the victim
On a positive note, we fined the vessel for gross discharge of plastic waste and recovered the cost of the search and recovery operation."

Still Chuckling.
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Old 01-15-2008
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Yeah, the idea of the styrofoam plates just struck me as ridiculous. If the guy doesn't have a few Type IV PFDs and/or a LifeSling aboard, he really shouldn't be out there.
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New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 01-15-2008
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What's going to show up more from a helicopter, 200 white plates littering an area, or a MOB pole?

If I'm in the water, I wanna float and I wanna be found. If one of my crew doesn't throw me something to assist my chances with either because they were worried about MARPOL and I get back on board, there is going to be some 'splainin' to do. I've been on a few SAR's and while I've been first on scene a couple of times, the search doesn't really start until the helicopter arrives and I bet a bunch of styrofoam plates would catch their eye pretty quickly.

And before anyone starts calling me a stupid idiot, I carry a MOB pole, lifesling and a horseshoe buoy along with several floatation cushions in the cockpit. I do not carry styrofoam plates and I don't plan to purchase them for this special use but I don't think it's a bad idea either to assist the person in the water being located. Name calling really chills fresh ideas from coming out.
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Last edited by erps; 01-15-2008 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 01-15-2008
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Erps,
wasn't name calling - just pointing out if you are going to throw something, throw something reflective, and with enough floatation to help the victim.

The sense of humor in which I pointed it out is just my way, I am after all, chuckles
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Old 01-15-2008
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Interesting video SD - a real eye-opener if it's legit (I don't have time to fact-check this one, but I'm assuming you have and that it wasn't posted with the same intent that the NG "Crack Spider" documentary was). I despise people who litter for no better reason than convenience.

I don't think anyone advocates throwing plates in the ocean for no reason. That being said, lots of people advocate throwing anything in the water that floats (litter the area) to help mark the location of the person you are trying to save the life of.
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Old 01-15-2008
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I'm not saying that you shouldn't throw stuff overboard to help the MOB out... I am saying that you might want to think as to what you do throw overboard and whether it will be of any real use in helping recover the MOB. A danbuoy or MOB pole makes the MOB easier to see, especially in heavier seas, as does a floating strobe. A Type IV PFD may help them stay afloat, as will a LifeSling. I don't see styrofoam plates contributing to the MOB's ability to stay afloat, nor do I see them as being very useful for marking the MOBs location, given that they won't stay anywhere near the MOB.

If you don't have an MOB pole, don't have a danbuoy, don't have any floating cushions, don't have any Type IV PFDs, don't have any standard PFDs, and don't have a LifeSling, by all means—go ahead... throw out the plates... but if you don't have any of the former equipment to throw to the MOB, what the hell are you doing out on the water???

Also, another point is that a lot of the "throw the styrofoam plates" advocates say that they breakdown fairly quickly... this isn't true. And the chances of you being able to recover the MOB and the Type IV PFD he's grabbed onto, is a lot better than the chance of you recovering the MOB and the two dozen styrofoam plates that he never saw and didn't care to.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AboardIndigo View Post
Interesting video SD - a real eye-opener if it's legit (I don't have time to fact-check this one, but I'm assuming you have and that it wasn't posted with the same intent that the NG "Crack Spider" documentary was). I despise people who litter for no better reason than convenience.

I don't think anyone advocates throwing plates in the ocean for no reason. That being said, lots of people advocate throwing anything in the water that floats (litter the area) to help mark the location of the person you are trying to save the life of.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 01-15-2008 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 01-15-2008
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SD, I think you're wrong that a MOB Pole is easier to see than a bunch of floating plates. And while that's my opinion, I would take the opinion of a SAR pilot over mine on what's easier to see because it would be an opinion based on experiece. Are you a SAR pilot by any chance?
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Old 01-15-2008
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From the air, a bunch of styrofoam plate are probably far easier to see.. but when I have an MOB, I usually don't have air support helping me find them. and I'm on the deck of a boat—looking out at the ocean, and a flag on an MOB pole is far more visible, since it actually sticks up above the water's surface.

BTW, Erps... when was the last time you had an aircraft helping you look for an MOB on a daysail??? and how do you afford to have a SAR plane following your boat around all the time???
Quote:
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SD, I think you're wrong that a MOB Pole is easier to see than a bunch of floating plates. And while that's my opinion, I would take the opinion of a SAR pilot over mine on what's easier to see because it would be an opinion based on experiece. Are you a SAR pilot by any chance?
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 01-15-2008 at 11:27 AM.
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