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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 03-08-2008
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Of course, having sufficient sea room is a necessity. I don't think anyone has said otherwise.
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2008
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Eguaregis, No of helmsmen onboard is also a consideration for me. I will normally be cruising with one or two competent helmsmen onboard and controlling the run would not be a viable option for more than a few hours. That's another reason why hove to appeals to me. It is a passive method and allows a small crew to get plenty of rest, rather than exhausting themselves helming the boat.
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2008
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Running offwind wears ya out. I ran in 50+ and 12-15' wind waves for over 8 hrs and only had short breaks given by my crew from the helm as they didn't feel confident helming. It's rough work with quartering seas on a full keel boat as the waves push and pull as they pass under. It was nice to heave to for an occasional break to be sure. We saw 10 knots many times in a boat with a hull speed of 7 on that trip.
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Old 03-08-2008
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Sea room

Seadog,
I am just trying to understand...
Another element I could check near Wallis Island last May is up to which strength of wind could I progress up wind and with what gear?
The result of the test was the following:
With very little main (equivalent of 4 reefs) and the stail sail (quite small), I could progress (GPS measured, real progress) at 1.5knots at 50 degrees of the wind up 35 knots of apparent wind. Over, I was starting to lose ground.
The necessary reduction of sail makes a good sailing yacht very inoperant.
I recommned this test to everyone.
It is then that I decided to go for a passive defense and the para-anchor... absolutely not saying I am right.
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Old 03-08-2008
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Sd

Then what large stresses were you talking about compared to a drogue?

I didnt really mean Static as liken to being tied to a tree but far more stationary , thus being more static in drift than a drogue, at least in the literature I have read... And I was referring to a keel stepped mast..

Also to everyone else...I didnt think we were talking about manning the helm in either case..at least I'm not...just as the video I posted showed an empty lashed helm..This was not his question I dont think

I know I am ignorant of thease drouge and sea anchor matters but just trying to get people to contribute to the knowledge base about them.
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Old 03-08-2008
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I would like to point out that heaving to is not passive. A passive approach to storm weather would be lying ahull. Heaving to requires constant attention but not as much as sailing. There is work required to make sure the boat is balanced, rests with the seas hitting the boat at the desired angle, and slowly fore reaches. All that requires some attention. It is considered an active way of meeting bad weather as opposed to lying ahull, which is really giving up (passive).
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Old 03-08-2008
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passive

Plumper,
I agree on the constant attention when hove to. More passive is the para-anchor, but still needs attention to chafing of rode, readiness to face change of conditions... if I believe what I read before making my decision to order it...
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Old 03-08-2008
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I don't consider heaving-to a passive technique generally. I also don't consider running off without a drogue a passive technique, since it requires active steering to avoid a broach or pitchpole.

Lying to a sea anchor isn't a passive technique either IMHO. According to one sea anchor site, the rode will require adjustment depending on the wave period, as seen in this quote:

Quote:
We’ve found that the best procedure for us is to first set the anchor in the water and then pay out about 360 feet of rode (10 times the length of our boat). We continue to pay out small amounts of rode and watch how the boat responds to the waves.
Sea anchors tend to load and unload from what I understand, depending on their relative position in the wave compared to that of the boat.

Lying ahull or running off using a Jordan Series Drogue are passive techniques.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #29  
Old 03-08-2008
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Manning the Helm

Stillraining,

in the majority of cases I cited previously the boats running trailing drag devices were also handsteering. What I am talking about is real extreme conditions (+50kts) and in these conditions it appears relying on autopilot or windvane steering would be dangerous. Appears you need to be able to anticipate the waves coming behind you, which a helmsmen can do but an auto system will only react to.

Plumer, on the issue of passive tactics the point I was trying to make was heaving to allows a small crew to rest and concentrate on things going wrong. It is more "passive" than running where most of the examples I have seen need a lot more active management in extreme conditions.

Also I'll say again that I am not talking about personnel experience, this is all coming from what I have read / researched (and hopefully that's the only way I will ever find out )
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I have read that same site

I think what is implied... is getting your position in the trough length set right by slowly playing out line... once you have it you have it and then its pretty passive unless sea states change, except for monitoring chafe..??? thats how I took it any way...I will research that more.

The series drogue company did the same calculations for us altering length and number of cones ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I don't consider heaving-to a passive technique generally. I also don't consider running off without a drogue a passive technique, since it requires active steering to avoid a broach or pitchpole.

Lying to a sea anchor isn't a passive technique either IMHO. According to one sea anchor site, the rode will require adjustment depending on the wave period, as seen in this quote:



Sea anchors tend to load and unload from what I understand, depending on their relative position in the wave compared to that of the boat.

Lying ahull or running off using a Jordan Series Drogue are passive techniques.

Last edited by Stillraining; 03-08-2008 at 11:21 PM.
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