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  #31  
Old 08-19-2008
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First of all, it is Larry and Lin Pardey.

Second, heaving to isn't always a good tactic, as it really depends on the boat, the sails, the wind and waves... some boats don't heave to very well. This is often the case with more modern designs, which don't have the keel area to heave to and create the "protective slick" that the Pardeys describe. Modern fin keels often are too small in surface area and often require water moving over their surface to generate lift and prevent significant leeway as well—and don't do much when the boat is heaved to.

What may have worked for the Pardeys in a relatively old design boat, with a full keel, may not be applicable to a different design boat.

There is no one solution.

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Originally Posted by griglack View Post
You guys should read "Storm Tactics Handbook" by Lin and Larry Purdy (look for it on Amazon, I couldn't find it on SailNet). In this, they describe a method for heaving to, on almost any boat, as a method for riding out storms. They talk about a number of storms that they have survived in this way.

Of course, before heaving to in a large storm, you reduce sail (you probably would have already done that as the wind started to pick up). You would be on a second (or third) reef and the storm jib before doing this. They also recommend dragging a sea anchor from the forward, windward rail (near the bow) to assist.

You are right, that you would need enough sea room to do this. Also, I think that there is no "one size fits all (situations)" method.

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  #32  
Old 08-22-2008
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Heaving to

In 40 - 50 I sail "jib and reefed jigger" (staysail and reefed mizzen) in 50 - 60+ we heave to with just a reefed mizzen bolted down amidships and go to sleep and wait for better weather. Sloops have no business being out in winds that great. Get a stout double headsail Ketch if you want to be out in a hurricane. Get one with a reef or two in the mizzen. Batten down all the hatches and clear the decks. Your decks will be washed very clean! Clean of everything, including the occassional lifeline stanchion. I very rarely use my main trysail. If I had to beat off a lee shore I probably would, but I never get myself into that situation in the first place,hence the trysail looks like new and it's track is virtually unused.
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Old 08-22-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtee View Post
Sloops have no business being out in winds that great. Get a stout double headsail Ketch if you want to be out in a hurricane.
Very few sailors want to be out there in a hurricane but regrettably the hurricanes don't know this or care. When you're out there you're out there, sloop or no. Best you understand what to do next.

The vessel that I wouldn't choose for really heavy weather is a multi because heaving to must a dodgy option with little or no resistance to leeway. Or do I have this wrong SD? (my limited experience with multis herewith declared ) How do you heave a multi to? Sea anchors I guess.

Andre
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  #34  
Old 08-22-2008
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One of the better tactics for a multihull is lying ahull. Since they don't have a heavy keel, they tend to float up with the waves, rather than get dragged through them. Most multis don't have a deep keel to trip over either. If a multihull has to stop in a heavy storm a Jordan Series Drogue is probably the best choice of devices to use—since it is designed to help prevent wave and stom induced capsizes.
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  #35  
Old 08-23-2008
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Heaving-to in storms, yes or no

Fellow sailors have already offered good advice on this subject but like all things relating to boats we find differing opinions. My boat is full keel. Based on her sea keeping ability, and my own experiences, I believe in heaving-to. During my seven-year solo voyage around the world I hove-to for many of the reasons discussed: to rest, to wait for dawn before entering a new port, to make repairs, to let a ship pass in front or back, to wait out a short lived squall, or in the case of a "Southerly Buster"off the coast of New South Wales, Australia to ride out 45 to 60 knot blow for three days.

In the Red Sea, 50 knot plus winds forced me to run down wind with trysail and storm jib. The waves , however were 10 feet and under. Had they threatened broaches, roles or pitch poling, I would have hove-to instead. For cruisers, I believe that continuing a course down wind in steep breaking waves, whether under storm sails or bare poles is courting disaster.

Now can you heave -to in hurricane winds with sail up? Never tried it but I assume sails would shred. For that reason I carried a parachute anchor for the ultimate storm. I dodged several but never deployed my parachute anchor.

I am not yet sold on the series drogue tactic because it doesn't appear to create a wide enough slick to protect the boat from approaching waves and because it seems to me that it would hold the stern down just when it needs to rise to meet an approaching wave. To be fair, though, I have never tried a series drogue nor do I know anyone who has.
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Last edited by Cruisingdreamspress; 08-23-2008 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 08-24-2008
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Don't read books and think you are ready, you won't be - it doesn't matter what Lin and Larry or Alard or someone on this net did, it will be your storm in your boat and you trying to survive. So, in your own boat, learn how to reef down or drop sails quickly, how to run before a storm with and without sails, claw off a lee shore and practice laying ahull. Know your engine - how to change an impeller, how to change a clogged filter , how to bleed the engine, etc.
Then you are ready for whatever comes.
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  #37  
Old 06-12-2013
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Re: Heaving-To versus Bare Poles

I have been doing research into Heaving-to for the last two years as an Ocean Engineer for my Master's thesis. Two things to note about what has been said so far. The 1979 FASTNET report on the incident contained errors in the data analysis of the data they collected. After apply correct data analysis, heaving-to scored best tactic 8 times out of 12 categories. It also scored worse in 3 of which there where other data inconsistencies present that make those scores suspect. Lying a hull with bare poles was the worst base on that data. I would surmise is that heaving-to helped in dissipating the on coming wave and running off basically gave the skipper an opportunity to maneuver through it to the best of their ability. Lying a hull with bare poles, the boat just had to take it.

For my research, I am using Computational Fluid Dynamics to study what is happen to the waves, when a boat heaves-to. What I have found is that the boat is pull water with it in this slick and that water has wave momentum from a different part of the wave. When the water from the slick moves over the water adjacent to it, it reduces its motion. This means, that as the crest of the wave reaches the boat, the water it is pulling with it has downward momentum, which pushes down the crest of the wave. This flattens the crest and reduces the steepness of the wave and reduces its ability to break. For modern boats, applying a sea anchor the way it has been recommended should help the boat move the water in a similar way as a full keel, though a simulation or experiment will need to be done to verify this. It is not the Von Karman Vortex Sheet that dissipates the wave in heaving-to; it is Newton's Law of momentum that is doing the trick. I originally thought it was the vortex sheet also, until I did the simulation.

Last edited by dahicke; 06-12-2013 at 02:32 AM. Reason: grammer
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  #38  
Old 06-12-2013
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Re: Heaving-To versus Bare Poles

Welcome to Sailnet!
Interesting contribution to this discussion. Would you care to share more regarding the research that you have conducted? Did you model various hull forms, full keel v. wing, etc. Any experimenting in a wave tank, what type of modeling did you perform, that kind of thing.

Have you presented your thesis yet? Good luck if you have yet to defend it.

Again,
Welcome aboard! Make yourself at home and have a good time here.
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Old 06-12-2013
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Re: Heaving-To versus Bare Poles

Have been on heavy displacement full keel and light displacement sleds in storms. As said tactics vary by boat. On current boat carry storm jib on deployable inner "baby" stay with Winchard hook to deck fitting and Jordan series drogue. Assuming not on lee shore with current boat given large spade rudder, bulbed fin keel using sea anchor given complexities of going forward to deploy and inability to retrieve did not seem viable option. Concern of structural damage from boat backing up on sea anchor another concern. Rather spec'd boat with cleats at extreme aft corners with smooth stainless plates under to decrease chaff and will use storm jib in moderate storm conditions, bare poles with series drogue in the big stuff. Like set and forget. Go down below with boat buttoned up and try to stay off the overhead.
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Old 06-30-2013
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Re: Heaving-To versus Bare Poles

There really is no "versus" here. It all depends upon the conditions and destination location. There comes a point when you can no longer remain heaved to, and all sail must be lowered. Assuming you are talking heavy gale conditions (what most people call storm) and not survival conditions (which is very subjective, depends upon vessel type and size), then which tactic used would depend upon whether your destination is to leeward of not. If yes, the bare poles with a free flowing drogue like a Galerider on a bridle would be the best choice. If your destination was not to leeward, then heaving to would be an option until it became too violent, then you would be back to bare poles and a drogue off the stern. (BTW, the Galerider deployed from the bow while heaved to, allowing your vessel to remain hove to much longer than without, and with less sail exposed). If you had no sea room to lose, then heaving to would be an option, conditions allowing. If conditions did not allow, then the series drogues become a practical option to "park" the boat with about a knot and a half of leeway. Look at the series drogue as being similar in leeway as heaving to would be. They are just such a pain to retract, so heaving to would be preferable until conditions overpowered.

Again, is is not one or the other; both are different tools for different jobs, and there is too much disinformation by people who have never experienced either.

".....I hove-to for many of the reasons discussed: to rest, to wait for dawn before entering a new port, to make repairs, to let a ship pass in front or back, to wait out a short lived squall, or in the case of a "Southerly Buster"off the coast of New South Wales, Australia to ride out 45 to 60 knot blow for three days."

Did that once. About 25 years ago was leaving Coff's Harbor (NSW), waiting for this big southerly buster the locals were telling me about, to ride it all the way north to Southport (which is against the prevailing winds and current). About 10 yachts were to leave that morning, one by one each dropping out as it got closer as WX reports had it "busting" it's way up the coast, until we were left all alone when it hit. We bare poled it almost all the way, and despite carrying drogues, were still overpowered in the extreme wind-against-current conditions which raised vertical seas not much more than 100 feet apart well offshore of Danger Point lighthouse. Heaving to would have been impossible, as would a parachute, as would bare poles alone without towing drogues. Even a series drogue would have been too slow and caused damage from boarding seas. Only running before under bare poles with drogues while hand steering would have worked there. Point is, it is not a "versus" decision... it is using the right tool for the job.
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