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  #21  
Old 09-25-2009
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I use 1/4" Dynex for all my halyards. Wire is dead......dead weight just waiting to cause problems....I treat theDynex like a wire to rope Halyard
The 1/4" stuff is plenty strong, but I needed a way to handle it. For the part I hoist by hand, and leave on the deck when hoisted. I took a double braid with the same size core and removed 8 feet or so of the core. I ran the Dynex into the cover and stitched it where it hits the other core. And whipped (or taped ) where the cover and core meet. It cover acts like a chinese finger trick, just gets tighter with tension.
this also is good economics. You do not have to size the Dynex to make it easy to handle. You do not have an oversized and expensive rope laying on your deck doing nothing.
I use "softies" for all shackles now. They are Dynex loops that are stronger than shackles, as well as easy on the boat and hands. Anywhere I had shackles, I now have "softies"
Photos of some of this is in the lower URL.
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roblusignan View Post
I have a halyard running up to a pulley that is only large enough to accommodate a thin wire rope. Where can I learn how to do that splice?
Look up the strength of that small wire, and compare it to the same size of Dynex. You may be surprised. Unless your sheaves are messed up, I suspect you can use wire sheaves for SK-75

/ Ropes

USe the Dynex 75 as the rope you would need for halyards. This is the SK-75 that goes under the Dynex, Spectra, Amsteel.....it is all the same stuff.

The Dynex Dux however is very different, and I have rigged my entire boat in Dynex Dux. It is much stronger and has very low creep or stretch. No more wire.....
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2009
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In went with 3/8" rope for mine. No issues with the sheaves at all. I'd like to change them out now the mast is down and may still do so if I can figure out how the hell to get them out of the masthead.

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  #24  
Old 11-03-2009
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Most of the comments are correct but beware UV with these low-stretch, high-strength materials - They rot very quickly in the sun. Jmolan has the right idea but I carry it farther and entirely replace the cover. There's all sorts of constant diameter splices. Make sure the one you're using doesn't depend on external whipping or have feathers less than sheave diameter, to prevent bulging.
Unlike a lot of professional riggers, I like StaSet-X: It's cost/strength & stretch ratios are superior to anything else and it's easy and quick to splice. The main problem people have with it is it becoming more and more stiff with time. That's because they are twisting their lines. The solution there is to use butterfly coils instead of traditional coils, which really don't make much sense in the vast majority of uses aboard or kern-mantle (cover and core) rope. They're holdovers from 3-strand hemp rope.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2010
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i know this is an older thread, but does anyone have some 2010/2011 insight as to utilizing the dynex and a "normal" 3/8 rope-to-rope splice instead of a wire-to-rope splice? My situation is that we have a worn out main and genoa halyard that are on a C&C 32 where the sheaves were designed for wire-to-rope.

It's clear that the wire track has not been used in ages (it's all oxidized).

The 3/8 halyard that's currently in use sticks out about 1/2 way in the track (is that normal?). It was the appearance of the rope in the outer track that got me thinking about going back to wire-to-rope; now reading this thread has got me all confused. Help!
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2010
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I'm not really sure I follow what you want to do. Define "normal splice".

My preference is to change out the sheaves and use all rope halyards. The only time halyards have issues in the sun is when the cover is stripped, and they've been putting coatings on the cores to make them more UV stable. In addition, if you don't care about the extra weight, leave the covers on.
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2010
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kiltmadoc - You have asked two questions. Please see my earlier post and feel free to request more detail or clarification. I apologize for too much detail but want to give specific advice that's needed for correct masthead halyard upgrade. As always, wear a climbing harness in your bosun's chair and clip that separately to both your halyard and also to a bowline around the masthead that's also tied securely around the mast, so there's no way it can slip off. Also, be extremely careful not to cut things you don't want to while you're up there - A small slip of the wrist can easily kill you!

Sheaves:
If your sheaves have literally a V shape, they will pinch and tear the inner (strength) fibers. The diameter of the groove in the sheave ought to be equal or greater than the diameter of the rope. The diameter of the overall sheave, seen as you look through the axis, needs to be at least 2.5 X the diameter of the rope. Many commonly available sheaves for rope are simply too fat to fit in the narrow slots on mastheads made for wire rope, so you will probably have to look at sheaves with smaller diameters. Take a set of calipers to accurately measure the available width of this slot and remember that there is probably 1/32nd inch you can get additionally by sanding oxidation or paint.
As I have probably mentioned elsewhere here, I strongly suggest you use (1) Use sheaves with bearings. You will create an additional 20% in drag, not even counting side friction, which is often considerable, with sheaves without bearings, for every 180° the rope bends. You'll love how easily your sails raise when you use them! (2) No plastic in masthead sheaves (3) Teflon washers the precise diameter of the sheaves, on either side. If you can double thin washers, you will have the best chafe protection. (4) Oversize guides (I usually use thin aluminum sheet, mounted to the sheave clevis pins and bolted on top, to prevent wiggling.) to make up the remainder of the width remaining space from the width of the sheave: You don't want to have any side slop and yet want the sheaves to effortlessly spin.
Because almost all sheaves are this large and because you don't need a diameter of groove larger than the rope, you can often (If you can actually remove them!) remove the clevis pins and replace your sheaves with smaller diameter sheaves that nevertheless are the correct size. There are some additional issues, as well: If your rope, with the smaller sheave, rubs, that has to be either cleared or perhaps the smaller sheave simply won't work. Garhauer has inexpensive, super-quality sheaves I use frequently.

Splices:
Because constant-diameter, core-to-core splices are difficult, there are few who use them. This is by far the best way to join two double-braid (kern-mantle) ropes. The commonly used cover-tuck method is NOT strong and depends entirely on lock-stitching, which deforms the splice, often makes loops of cover that stick out and is highly vulnerable to tearing apart. It is NOT suitable for halyards. Remember that the cover is designed for wear and UV protection, while the core is designed for tensile strength, so splicing the covers together while ignoring the cores is essentially silly.
Why mention all this? Because an elegant solution, if you can not replace the wire V-shaped sheaves with rope sheaves is to replace them with wire U-shaped sheaves and use 1/4" Warpspeed spliced to 7/16" low-stretch line, for rope clutches, winch and hand use. Ooh - Cool! You have to have a strong constant diameter, core-to-core splice that will travel through blocks and masthead entry, though. If you're at all unsure about this splice, ask someone who does it regularly for a living. It takes me at least three hours and I'm working quickly all the time. It's the most complicated and one of the longest splices I make.
To keep the splice from jamming in the masthead as it passes around the masthead sheave, use a stop-ball. You can find them in different diameters. Thread it, wit a diameter that's tight, on the rope before you splice the shackle and then pull it onto the splice. It will stop as the rope bulges, preventing the splice from entering the masthead and thus avoiding jamming.

zz4gta - Excellent comment. The UV coating of cores does, however, wear off immediately. This isn't really an issue for a well-funded race boat but...

By the way, the Merit 25 is one of my favorite boats - They're just beautiful sailors on any point of sail and so much fun!
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  #28  
Old 12-13-2010
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Jerr, Wow,thanks for the detailed information!

My sheaves are original equipment and are "u" shaped for the rope with an in-cut smaller diameter "u" track for the wire. If I go with all-rope, my original C&C manual describes 3/8 inch rope for the wire-to-rope, so can I assume that i can still use 3/8 inch rope, and leave the original sheave alone? (other than the modifications with teflon washers etc.)

By the way: any suggestions for 3/8 line? I see sta-set, stay-set x, lamson, and so on; mentioned with varying degrees of endorsements. The boat is just for cruising, so all i want is to set it and forget it when I am trying to sail and watch my 4 year old at the same time.
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2010
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Kiltmadoc, a lot of Cruisers say the same thing, set and forget, which is why they don't opt for high dollar halyards. This couldn't be farther from the truth. If you want set and forget, you need to eliminate stretch, which would actually require you to buy the high dollar strings.

The less a jib sheet stretches, the less you'll have to re-trim when the wind picks up. Same with a halyard. When the wind speed picks up, the extra pressure stretches the halyard and sail material moving the draft aft and creating a more powerful shape. Just what you don't want.

If you're worried about cost, look to see if your hardware will accept 5/16th halyards. But yes, 3/8th would work just fine, and for cruising (I equate cruising to not caring about sail shape) then sta set would be fine. Sta-set-x would be better, and warpspeed or endura-braid would be something you can see the difference.

If you have money to burn any SK-90 core would work, but that's $6.40 a foot. Overkill if you ask me. I do think you'd be very happy with Warpspeed (samson- $2.60/ft) or endurabraid (NER- $2.60/ft).
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  #30  
Old 12-15-2010
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Kiltmadoc - You're quite welcome! Yes, you may leave those sheaves in place. If you're ever replacing something at your masthead, take a look at them and see if you can't take some replacements with you - That small groove does pinch rope and will eventually break internal fibers. It's not quite as severe a problem as a V-Shape but it will eventually destroy your halyard by pinching the core fibers at the edge of the inner groove. The good news is that knowing you have those sheaves, you can easily find replacements. You'll know when this is happening because your halyard will develop soft spots and bumps: Replace any line that's like that immediately - It's about to fail!

zz4gta's advice is sound, except please don't ever use Sta-Set for halyards. It's a relatively medium-stretch line with ~3.6% elongation at 30% yield stress (1500# for 3/8", or just 500# stress on the line, which, with a 42:1 winch, requires less than 12# force on your winch handle!), designed to be resilient with shock loading, as is needed in sheets. You will have never-ending halyard sag with Sta-Set. That's because 30% of yield stress is really too much of a load for it: Typically, an 8:1 safety factor is needed. Warpspeed, by comparison, has .79% stretch at 30% yield and that's >>3900#, requiring 93# force on that #42 winch - So you can see why it's appropriate: You shouldn't be able to crank so much force on the line that you endanger it. The reason the Sta-Set keeps creeping as a halyard is that you're actually exceeding its yield stress limit over time. It will harden but a hardened rope has lost much of its strength - Perhaps 70% is gone. It's almost impossible to tell because at this stage, the rope is trashed. Unfortunately, many sail with ropes that are in this stage and the way to tell if they are hardened is to feel - They will feel stiff and crackle when bent. Replace any ropes that feel this way - They are in eminent danger of failure and because they have no elongation left, will fail suddenly (Without warning). Never, ever, use ropes that are stiff or have soft spots or bulges to climb a mast!
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