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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 10-21-2008
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T34C has a spectacular aura about T34C has a spectacular aura about T34C has a spectacular aura about
Dog- He says he HAS a riding sail.

Idiens- He is complaining about LEE helm, not weather helm.

Jim / DrB - You should both invest in a better topping lift.

Solla- Dog is right. without telling us what boat you have and what sails you're using, about all you're going to get is pretty much just going to be guess work.
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  #12  
Old 10-21-2008
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Why do I need to "invest in a better topping lift?" (Setting aside for the moment you don't know what our boat currently has for a topping lift.)

Jim
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
Why do I need to "invest in a better topping lift?" (Setting aside for the moment you don't know what our boat currently has for a topping lift.)

Jim
Sorry, just went back and reread what you wrote and shouldn't have included you in that.
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Old 10-21-2008
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Topping Lift

Okay (T34C), if you didn't want to include SEMIJim, I guess that the comment was directed at me, so how is a topping lift, which keeps the boom from dropping, supposed to help keep it from not bounching up or swinging back and forth when there is little tension on the main sheet. The OP said there was little wind, so in my experience when I have tried that set-up, the boom "bounces" as the boat rocks or bobs from wake or waves unless there is enough air pressure on the sail to keep it filled.

DrB
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Old 10-21-2008
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Yes, the boat is a Bavaria and yes, on a stbd tack the wheel needs to be at 3 o'clock (that's actually optimistic) to point up into the 'wind'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
Eric,

I understand the keel configuration (Bavaria uses something similar). But I'm having trouble reconciling your description of "lee helm" with your statement that the helm is at "3 o'clock".

Are you saying that, on a starboard tack, you must turn the wheel about 1/4 turn to starboard? And, on a port tack, you must turn the wheel 1/4 turn to port?

Are or you saying the opposite, i.e. that on port tack you must turn the wheel 1/4 turn to starboard, and vice versa?
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Old 10-21-2008
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Okay, just wanted to confirm that we are talking about lee helm.

I won't re-hash the good advice offered above to combat lee helm. Idiens mentioned adjusting mast rake forward to combat weather helm, and obviously the opposite is true. Before trying the advice previously offered, I would confirm that you have the proper mast rake dialed in. Once you confirm that the rig is tuned to spec, then you can fiddle with the other suggestions.

P.S. SailNet has a pretty strict policy against using multiple sign-on names:

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Suggest you contact one of the Moderators and ask them to merge your account.
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2008
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Sailing at Anchor

The link to the Don Jordon article is very instructive with regards to the issue of sailing around at anchor. The Bavaria mast is rather far forward and may indeed act as the feathers on a arrow (as he notes) leading to instability when moored from the bow. I think the idea of a riding sail is essentially to create bigger feathers at the stern. Obviously mine were not quite big enough. Rigging the anchor from the stern is a nice idea though it does not seem very practical. One thought is to keep everything as it is but instead to snub from a stern cleat. Here's the scenario:
  • Say depth, etc dictate 100 feet of chain. Anchor with 60 then attach a 40 foot snubbing line (length of the boat plus 6 feet extra).
  • Carry the bitter end of the snubbing line to a stern cleat (extra credit for a bridle of some sort) and attach.
  • The boat is still bow to the wind since no additional chain has been let out. The snubbing line is 'flaccid'.
  • Now, let out the remaining 40 feet of chain.
  • Gradually the snubber will take the load and harden up just as it normally would except this time it's attachment point is at the stern.
  • End result, stern-to anchoring

I'm just thinking out load here so please limit sarcastic assessments about what an idiot I am.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
As for sailing at anchor: Either get a riding sail made up or anchor by the stern. Don Jordan has a very good argument for anchoring by the stern—but many boats don't have the gear necessary to do it.

Lee helm, especially very consistent lee helm as you have on your boat, is often caused by a problem in the rigging—if it isn't a problem with the original design to begin with. It would help if you said WHAT FREAKING BOAT YOU HAVE. Some boats have known issues with severe lee/weather helm and many have known solutions. It could be something as simple as adjusting the mast rake a bit.
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Old 10-21-2008
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Solla-

You'd have to let out an extra 75' of chain or so—starting with the 60' where the snubbing line is attached. Since you need to let out enough chain to get the snubbing line attachment point 40' or so from the stern of the boat. If you only let out 40' of chain, you'll have a bridle, with one chain leg and one rope leg and the boat perpendicular to the main part of the anchor rode... that'd probably be a bad way to anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SollaSollewSails View Post
The link to the Don Jordon article is very instructive with regards to the issue of sailing around at anchor. The Bavaria mast is rather far forward and may indeed act as the feathers on a arrow (as he notes) leading to instability when moored from the bow. I think the idea of a riding sail is essentially to create bigger feathers at the stern. Obviously mine were not quite big enough. Rigging the anchor from the stern is a nice idea though it does not seem very practical. One thought is to keep everything as it is but instead to snub from a stern cleat. Here's the scenario:
  • Say depth, etc dictate 100 feet of chain. Anchor with 60 then attach a 40 foot snubbing line (length of the boat plus 6 feet extra).
  • Carry the bitter end of the snubbing line to a stern cleat (extra credit for a bridle of some sort) and attach.
  • The boat is still bow to the wind since no additional chain has been let out. The snubbing line is 'flaccid'.
  • Now, let out the remaining 40 feet of chain.
  • Gradually the snubber will take the load and harden up just as it normally would except this time it's attachment point is at the stern.
  • End result, stern-to anchoring
I'm just thinking out load here so please limit sarcastic assessments about what an idiot I am.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2008
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Getting a bigger riding sail is probably a better idea.

EG
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Old 10-22-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SollaSollewSails View Post
Yes, the boat is a Bavaria and yes, on a stbd tack the wheel needs to be at 3 o'clock (that's actually optimistic) to point up into the 'wind'.
So does the wheel need to be at 9 o'clock on a port tack, as well?

Jim
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