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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #381  
Old 12-10-2010
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Some annoying people think that we are phone texting and that all the others know their acronyms.
JSD, BS, BFS and so forth...
Or they are to lazy to type it out...

But the subject on this thread is "Heavy Weather Sailing". The 62 has its own thread and those 62 questions should be asked there........

$%^&*($# Annoying people....
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Last edited by Boasun; 12-10-2010 at 08:24 AM.
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  #382  
Old 12-10-2010
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I disagree Boas. The question is about whether a breaking, following sea can take out a rudder. It was presented as a possibility in the Rule62 thread, but it's a broader issue that relates to a previous discussion we had in this thread regarding the same thing. So it really belongs here.

BillyR, as for the JSD (Jordan Series Drogue), the previous discussion in this thread was whether it made more general sense to deploy a braking device off the bow or off the stern...with my concern being that with stern to waves (especially with a braking device like the JSD) breaking seas blasting past the rudder with the boat being held in place by the drogue could potentially present some serious forces on the rudder that could cause damage.

It's the same idea as surfing backward on a wave if you're heading into it bow first, and the rudder is damaged from that backward motion.

With a parachute type anchor off the bow, you're putting the logical part of the boat into the oncoming breaking waves, avoiding the backward surfing with the sea anchor (thereby protecting the rudder) and, potentially getting through the storm more quickly.

With a drogue like the JSD, you're essentially doing the opposite of these.

So, if Rule62's rudder was taken out prior to hitting the reef as some suggested, this conversation just got a lot more interesting.

PS - Don't get me wrong, I like the JSD and its concept. And Jordan poo-poos the above scenario. I've just always been a little skeptical.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 12-10-2010 at 08:28 AM.
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  #383  
Old 12-10-2010
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Drogues & Sea Anchors are necessary at times in bad storms.
There are two schools of thought on the use of them; Off the bow or Off the stern.
Have seen and heard of too many spade rudders breaking off.

To me a spade rudder is hazardous, I know that some people love them. But in storms and shadow waters the stresses can and have broke them off at the hull.

If you don't have a drogue on board you can make one by using your anchor rode and attaching what ever is available to create drag. Mother-in-law, Buckets, broken hatch covers, coils of line, laundry bag of dirty clothes, old sails or sail bags; what ever your imagination can come up with.
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  #384  
Old 12-10-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
If you don't have a drogue on board you can make one by using your anchor rode and attaching what ever is available to create drag. Mother-in-law, Buckets, broken hatch covers, coils of line, laundry bag of dirty clothes, old sails or sail bags; what ever your imagination can come up with.
Nice.
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  #385  
Old 12-10-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Drogues & Sea Anchors are necessary at times in bad storms.
There are two schools of thought on the use of them; Off the bow or Off the stern.
Have seen and heard of too many spade rudders breaking off.

To me a spade rudder is hazardous, I know that some people love them. But in storms and shadow waters the stresses can and have broke them off at the hull.

If you don't have a drogue on board you can make one by using your anchor rode and attaching what ever is available to create drag. Mother-in-law, Buckets, broken hatch covers, coils of line, laundry bag of dirty clothes, old sails or sail bags; what ever your imagination can come up with.
You know your stuff.

Off the bow, never the stern is my school of thought[ for many -to me obvious reasons]. Also need 100m or more of heavy duty nylon warp and something to stop it chafing.
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Last edited by St Anna; 12-10-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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  #386  
Old 12-17-2010
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My Question was about practicing Heaving to, I want to know that my boat can do it or that I can get it to do it, and have wondered if any of you armchair sailors have practiced it.

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  #387  
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My Question was about practicing Heaving to, I want to know that my boat can do it or that I can get it to do it, and have wondered if any of you armchair sailors have practiced it.

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  #388  
Old 12-17-2010
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Do you have any documented cases of a spade rudder breaking when the boat was lying to a Jordan Series Drogue. I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Drogues & Sea Anchors are necessary at times in bad storms.
There are two schools of thought on the use of them; Off the bow or Off the stern.
Have seen and heard of too many spade rudders breaking off.

To me a spade rudder is hazardous, I know that some people love them. But in storms and shadow waters the stresses can and have broke them off at the hull.

If you don't have a drogue on board you can make one by using your anchor rode and attaching what ever is available to create drag. Mother-in-law, Buckets, broken hatch covers, coils of line, laundry bag of dirty clothes, old sails or sail bags; what ever your imagination can come up with.
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  #389  
Old 12-17-2010
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Most boats can heave to, but the exact combination of helm position, sails, etc., often depends on the actual wind strength and sea state. What works for one boat, may not work for another. What works in 25 knots of wind, may not work in 35 knots of wind.

Some boats may fore-reach instead of heaving-to. This means they'll be moving and making a bit of progress to windward, and often not staying within the protective slick formed by the boat's understructure. Again, this depends on the specific conditions, boat and sails. Some boats may forereach in some conditions and heave-to in others.

It would help if you said what kind of boat you have, as someone here may have experience heaving-to with it, and might be able to offer boat-specific advice.

IMHO, you have to go out there and experiment and just do it. If you don't, you'll never really have a good idea of what your boat can or can't do. Trying to figure it all out in a storm is really not what you want to be doing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fawcettm View Post
My Question was about practicing Heaving to, I want to know that my boat can do it or that I can get it to do it, and have wondered if any of you armchair sailors have practiced it.

mark
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Telstar 28
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 12-17-2010 at 03:56 PM.
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  #390  
Old 12-17-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawcettm View Post
My Question was about practicing Heaving to, I want to know that my boat can do it or that I can get it to do it, and have wondered if any of you armchair sailors have practiced it.

mark
There are a number of videos on Youtube, some better than others. That might be a good place to start.
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