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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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  #31  
Old 11-17-2008
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Check the line lead angles all the way back to the cockpit. See if you can work out how to reduce angle changes to the minimum. This helped me out after running into the same situation.
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  #32  
Old 11-17-2008
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How does your girlfriend feel about sailing these days etc

Brett,

With your size boat and high winds, even if everything is optimum with your rig, the strength needed to pull in the jib can be more than one guy can handle. Blanketing the jib with the main always works, but as Faster mentions, in rough seas you're setting yourself up for an accidental jibe. Sometimes I put a reefed main up for a downwind run simply for that purpose - it'd be easier to run under jib alone, except when I have to get the damned thing in! I agree with Faster that

Generally if you need a winch to get the sail furled either you're doing it wrong, or there's a mechanical problem, or a substandard furler.

if we consider "doing it wrong" not having enough people-power to heave-ho the thing in when you need to. However, having to pull on the line with more force than one guy can muster is not necessarily indicative of a mechanical problem (although it CAN be.) Larger boats solve the problem with hydraulic furling.

The problem with the winch is that it exerts a steady pull, whereas the best way to get the jib in with minimum force is to haul in a lot at the odd times that everything lines up just right. If I need to use a winch I never use the little one we have for the furling line - I go for the unused primary. That way when the strain lets up I can get in a lot. And yes, be sure to have extra wraps on the furling drum - as many as it can hold. This not only prevents you from running out of line, but effectively increases the diameter of the drum and gives you more mechanical advantage.

Something no one's mentioned as yet- you can always DROP the jib instead of furling it. I've done this before when a furling line parted - it's no big deal. However, in your situation you were probably too short handed to keep everything under control.

And yes, how DOES your girlfriend feel about sailing these days?
Yrs,

Chris
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  #33  
Old 11-18-2008
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high wind furling

I used a Pro-Furl on a Hunter 40 in the San Francisco Bay area for many years and furled a 110 genoa in up to 50K winds. It would wind up on any point of sail. Before buying it I called the engineers at PF and they told me to put it on a winch and grind away, it can (and did) take it.

Steve Joyce
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  #34  
Old 11-18-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccccclark View Post
......Something no one's mentioned as yet- you can always DROP the jib instead of furling it. I've done this before when a furling line parted - it's no big deal. However, in your situation you were probably too short handed to keep everything under control......
... and adding to the difficulty of their situation at that time is the fact that a luff rope genoa is hard to keep on deck during a drop in a breeze - unlike a hanked jib which is at least fully attached even if part of it goes over the side.

While Profurl clearly advocates using a winch (and many have done so, apparently), if you take reasonable steps to reduce the load on the system everything will work more easily for all concerned.
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  #35  
Old 11-18-2008
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Furling topic

Hi! I have a Harken furling system on a 36 ft sloop, it is about 25 years old. The system has worked well except for some difficulty in 10 to 15 knot winds when I found it necessary to let the jib halyard off a bit then the furker worked fine. This past summer in a stronger blow 25 knots, gusting higher, and running before the wind the furler froze and would not furl what so ever. I was able to bring the boat into the wind under power and dropped the sail. I examined the furler once I was back on my mooring and found that a lock ring on the top swivel had become dislodged and the center of the swivel seperated enough to cause the mechanism to jam on itself. The lock ring was distoted and could not be reinstalled. I ordered a replacement part which a Harken supplier had sent to my mail address ( 4 days). The part was installed and the sail replaced on the foil. The system worked fine and worked well in strong wind as well. It is clear that tremendous loads are placed on the furling gear and that wear or part failure can cause serious problems in most abnormal situations, spare parts and a contingency plan for a non working furler is needed for all skippers. I have yet to determine what my stratgy/response would be to a jammed furler with a sail 25 % furled. How one secure the sail or remove it in an emergency? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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  #36  
Old 11-19-2008
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There's a good post by Giulietta on securing a jammed roller furling genny. I'll see if I can dig it up for you.
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  #37  
Old 11-20-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccccclark View Post
Brett,

With your size boat and high winds, even if everything is optimum with your rig, the strength needed to pull in the jib can be more than one guy can handle. Blanketing the jib with the main always works, but as Faster mentions, in rough seas you're setting yourself up for an accidental jibe. Sometimes I put a reefed main up for a downwind run simply for that purpose - it'd be easier to run under jib alone, except when I have to get the damned thing in! I agree with Faster that

Generally if you need a winch to get the sail furled either you're doing it wrong, or there's a mechanical problem, or a substandard furler.

if we consider "doing it wrong" not having enough people-power to heave-ho the thing in when you need to. However, having to pull on the line with more force than one guy can muster is not necessarily indicative of a mechanical problem (although it CAN be.) Larger boats solve the problem with hydraulic furling.

The problem with the winch is that it exerts a steady pull, whereas the best way to get the jib in with minimum force is to haul in a lot at the odd times that everything lines up just right. If I need to use a winch I never use the little one we have for the furling line - I go for the unused primary. That way when the strain lets up I can get in a lot. And yes, be sure to have extra wraps on the furling drum - as many as it can hold. This not only prevents you from running out of line, but effectively increases the diameter of the drum and gives you more mechanical advantage.

Something no one's mentioned as yet- you can always DROP the jib instead of furling it. I've done this before when a furling line parted - it's no big deal. However, in your situation you were probably too short handed to keep everything under control.

And yes, how DOES your girlfriend feel about sailing these days?
Yrs,

Chris
Well, I checked over the forestay tension and it is good, and there was no halyard wrap. I removed the Jib for repair and checked the ProFurl and it turns no problem. I can only conclude that the size of the sail plus the amount of wind (according to the buoy data, winds were 35 kts that day in our area) made the force exerted on the sail more than I could pull (and I am definitely not a 98 lb. weakling). I also need to get a longer furling line as I have had the problem a few times on not having enough line to fully furl the sail when the wind is high.

The girlfriend still likes the sailing but is wondering how come I always get the bad weather every time she goes with me. While she likes the sailing, she got pissed that she hit her head on the companionway hatch several times after she went below and I closed the hatch behind her to keep the rain out. Ooops.
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  #38  
Old 11-21-2008
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And she's still sailing with you... you're luckier than you have any right to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tausap View Post
Well, I checked over the forestay tension and it is good, and there was no halyard wrap. I removed the Jib for repair and checked the ProFurl and it turns no problem. I can only conclude that the size of the sail plus the amount of wind (according to the buoy data, winds were 35 kts that day in our area) made the force exerted on the sail more than I could pull (and I am definitely not a 98 lb. weakling). I also need to get a longer furling line as I have had the problem a few times on not having enough line to fully furl the sail when the wind is high.

The girlfriend still likes the sailing but is wondering how come I always get the bad weather every time she goes with me. While she likes the sailing, she got pissed that she hit her head on the companionway hatch several times after she went below and I closed the hatch behind her to keep the rain out. Ooops.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #39  
Old 11-23-2008
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This is way to simple - in the midst of two different Force 10 storms, we turned up into the wind (actually in the second storm we were knocked flat and rounded up into the wind), held the jib sheet just snug enough to steady the headsail and cranked it in - we could have done it with or without the winch.
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2008
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I may have missed it somewhere in this long thread, but how much space is there between the top of your furling gear and the top of the forestay? I agree that you should never need a winch unless you are furling under pressure. I once lost my rig using a winch to furl!

The problem was the halyard was so short that the furling drum was snagging the forestay on each turn. Under the strong load, I wound up twisting the forestay enough to weaken the swage and eventually snap it off at the masthead.

I was lucky. It happened at the dock when I got back in and was re-furling the jib, which was wound too tightly. Imagine losing your forestay in a strong wind.

So - I recommend having a good rigger go up your mast to check your forestay and furler with everything in place.

Now, if I need a winch to furl a luffing foresail in a 40 kt wind, I have my rigging checked. I sail with a 45' mast and a 130 Genoa on a ketch.
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