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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 12-05-2008
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Given that your only equipment was two Danforths, I would have deployed both of them set at 90 degrees from each other (45 off each side of the bow). This way, when the wind clocked 180 degrees, each anchor would turn only 135 degrees. Would that have kept them from dragging? Maybe not, but it improves your odds and maybe one would reset faster than the other.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2008
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Belay that. The 135 degrees didn't sound right, so I did a sketch. Each anchor would only have turned 90 degrees and would probably hold.
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2008
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Do you guys that routinley deploy two anchors on two seperate rodes ever get concerned about them becoming tangled together?
I do not anchor in these conditions, but if it were me, I would be afraid of getting them tangled and nothing holding.
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
In other words, better to set the anchor for the anticipated big-blow, rather than the light breeze you arrived with. That said, you did well in choosing the safe spot in Harness Creek, which has very good holding and protection.
Thanks, JohnRPollard for the input. Thinking back, I'm not sure I was sure yet, when I anchored, where the wind would be shifting to. It's hard to recall the timing that specifically. Either way, I'll definitely keep it in mind for the future.

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Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
JTo me good holding in mud is a crap shoot.
You may be right about that! And there might not have really been anything I could have done differently exactly. I do appreciate everyone offering some advice though, because it's helpful to think about what some options or alternatives might have been. I've learned a lot that way!

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Just giving you a hard time, because I can.
Ha ha! Thanks guys. I appreciate your input. And sailingdog, I don't mind the input about the anchor type, since once we buy a boat, we'll be looking to make sure we have ground tackle we're happy with. That may or may not involve buying anything, depending on what comes with the boat, but if it's two of the exact same anchor, whatever it is, I'm likely to buy something else to augment.

Thanks everyone for your continued thoughts on this. I definitely appreciate it!
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  #15  
Old 12-05-2008
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You're making the assumption that the boat wouldn't swing wide around the two anchors....but drag directly over them. Also, you're making the assumption that turning a danforth 90˚ won't cause it to unset, which is not a good bet.

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Originally Posted by Hesper View Post
Belay that. The 135 degrees didn't sound right, so I did a sketch. Each anchor would only have turned 90 degrees and would probably hold.
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Old 12-05-2008
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As I said in another thread on anchoring:

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A Rocna 15 (33 lbs) is about $560, 60' of 5/16" G43 high-test chain and 150' of 5/8" octoplait nylon is about $440, and a load-rated anchor shackle is about $10. For about $1000, you can get ground tackle that will let you rest fairly easy under most conditions for a boat up to about 35' LOA. What is your boat worth to you anyways???
In terms of full disclosure—I use a Rocna 15 as my primary anchor. My secondary is a 22 lb. Delta FastSet, but I'm upgrading this to the next size up. The tertiary/stern/kedge/lunch-hook anchor is a 12 lb. Danforth.
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josrulz View Post
Thanks, JohnRPollard for the input. Thinking back, I'm not sure I was sure yet, when I anchored, where the wind would be shifting to. It's hard to recall the timing that specifically. Either way, I'll definitely keep it in mind for the future.
Summer storms are commonplace and usually fairly well forecast, so it's a good idea to anticipate their arrival when anchoring. If a strong storm is forecast, we normally set the anchor from the direction most advantageous for holding when the storm arrives. The overwhelming majority of thunderstorms arrive from the west (typically somewhere between SW and NW), so there's no real guesswork.

I will only add, because some folks mentioned deploying two anchors, that I've never had occasion to use two anchors in all my years sailing on the Bay (except when Med-mooring and one instance when two other boats were rafted alongside in a big blow). We thankfully have good holding here and an abundance of very sheltered anchorages.
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2008
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I think you did most things very right. Including:

Moving to a more sheltered anchorage
Dressed ready for the squall
Engine on early

A few other comments:
All anchors struggle with 180 deg change in the wind, but the Danforth is often regarded as the worst performer in this regard, but its not your boat you have to work with what you have got.
7:1 is OK for chain and rope, but more is better. Holding will increase up to something like double this. Did you include the height of the bow roller in the 7:1? How deep was the anchorage? (7:1 is OK for 40 feet, but very poor for 10 feet ) In short if you could have let out more scope safely with 40Knots forecast it would have been helpful.
If you had been asleep? 40Knots is hard to sleep through, but it was your honeymoon so maybe you could have been a bit tired.
An anchor alarm on the GPS or a high wind alarm on the wind instruments would have alerted you.
Sometimes with strong winds you have to stay up all night on anchor watch. I anchor 350 days a year, maybe 5 or 6 days a year my wife and I will take turns on anchor watch. A few more days one of us may be awake some of the night. Living on a boat is not like a house, but I don’t have to go to work the next day.
One final comment
If your new wife is still speaking to you after this experience hang on her. A few flowers and some more “I love you” are needed.
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Old 12-05-2008
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When a Danforth is pulled from the back it levers itself out. To reset it has to dig the flukes back in. In many situations the mud between the flukes and shank keeps the tips of the flukes pointing up. Then the mud must wash away to let the tips fall or the needs to turn over 180 to reset. thats why sometimes it takes some time. Then if it pulls through a patch of silt the anchor won't hold until it finds some sticky stuff.
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Old 12-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex77 View Post
7:1 is OK for chain and rope, but more is better. Holding will increase up to something like double this. Did you include the height of the bow roller in the 7:1? How deep was the anchorage? (7:1 is OK for 40 feet, but very poor for 10 feet ) In short if you could have let out more scope safely with 40Knots forecast it would have been helpful...

...If your new wife is still speaking to you after this experience hang on her. A few flowers and some more “I love you” are needed.
Ha ha, yep she's still speaking to me, and can't wait to to find "our boat" (I introduced her to sailing a few years ago). After she took some lessons on her own a couple years ago, she said to me, "whatever happens between us, I'm going to keep sailing." Wow, that's cool.

As for the scope, I always include tide and freeboard in my calculations. I did let out a lot of rode, and it might have even been more than 7:1 (I was guessing because there were no markers on the line--I prefer markers). I agree more is better in these circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
The overwhelming majority of thunderstorms arrive from the west (typically somewhere between SW and NW), so there's no real guesswork.
True, and point well-taken. I would still prefer to be using an anchor that deals with wind-shifts better. Though I realize that a Danforth, when set, is often the best holding in softer mud. I'll be looking at some of the newer anchors as a possible alternative, if the boat we end up with doesn't already have what we're looking for.

Last edited by josrulz; 12-05-2008 at 07:09 PM.
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