Sinking of the Trashman - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 54 Old 02-03-2009
AEOLUS II
 
WouldaShoulda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: From The Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 2,906
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Just a couple of fun guys out for a BFS!!
WouldaShoulda is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 54 Old 02-03-2009
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,459
Thanks: 149
Thanked 141 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Easy there pal. Cam will pounce and start another lame sailors thread!

BTW Woulda - can you actually STILL not get the whole BFS thing? Surely you're not that slow.
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 54 Old 02-03-2009
AEOLUS II
 
WouldaShoulda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: From The Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 2,906
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Surely you're not that slow.
Have you been talking to my wife??
WouldaShoulda is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 54 Old 02-03-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,049
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Easy there pal. Cam will pounce and start another lame sailors thread!

BTW Woulda - can you actually STILL not get the whole BFS thing? Surely you're not that slow.
This post has a tone of Dis-gruntled-ness. ;-)

PalmettoSailor
s/v Palmetto Moon
1991 Catalina 36
PalmettoSailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 54 Old 02-03-2009
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,459
Thanks: 149
Thanked 141 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Well midlife - the whole anti-BFS thing gets a little silly at times. So whattayagonnado?

Don't worry I'm gruntled...just not neutered.

Anyway - Woulda had a great comeback so it's all good.

39512 - I would be interested in hearing your perspective since you actually know one of the guys. Beats a bunch of speculating.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 02-03-2009 at 01:40 PM.
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 54 Old 02-05-2009
Senior Member
 
39512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 101
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
I think that it was a convergence of factors. The guy I knew was less experienced than advertised. He was going through a divorce and he approached the delivery as a party and not as a potentially dangerous undertaking. The entire crew was pretty young and maybe a little arrogant.

At the time of the sinking, weather forecasting was fairly sketchy and the communication and navigation technology was archaic by todays standard. It was not uncommon to be out of touch for awhile. A powerful weather system, lax attitudes, poor communication, a lack of experience were all contributing factors.

To be honest, back then me or any one of many guys I knew could have been in that situation. Youth, a little dope, alcohol, arrogance and a big boat are a pretty toxic combination.

Trashman and Yankee Girl were wake-up calls for many of us.
39512 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 54 Old 02-05-2009
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,459
Thanks: 149
Thanked 141 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Wow. Thanks 39. One other pattern that seems to be common in these stories is that of delivery. I always see people discussing how a schedule in sailing can quickly lead to trouble. I assume deliveries are always on a schedule - so I also assume this leads to increased risk. Is that just the way delivery works?

As for youth, questionable sobriety, and arrogance, I have no idea what you're talking about.
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 54 Old 02-05-2009
Senior Member
 
Boasun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,070
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
It is great to have a schedule for the delivery of a vessel or your own voyage... But it is not carved in stone. When the schedule and reality start to conflict, you will find that it best to toss the schedule overboard and live with the reality and not try to force a schedule.

1600 Ton Master, 2nd Mate Unlimited Tonnage

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Maritime Instructor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Rapture
Boasun is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 54 Old 02-12-2009
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 57
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
It is great to have a schedule for the delivery of a vessel or your own voyage... But it is not carved in stone. When the schedule and reality start to conflict, you will find that it best to toss the schedule overboard and live with the reality and not try to force a schedule.
I'd argue that this is wisdom that applies to much more than just sailboat deliveries.

As a "security guy," I frequently have a front-row seat watching people try to either ignore inconvenient risks or beat reality into submission pretty much every day. Occasionally they get away with it, but more often than not they wind up somewhere between a Keystone Kops scramble and outright disaster.

It makes me wonder if there isn't something inherently different about how sailors approach the world, because if not, I can't explain why there aren't more disasters like Trashman.

"Urban Legend"
1972 C&C 35' Mk I
Belmont Harbor, Chicago, IL
chandlerman is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 54 Old 02-12-2009
Senior Member
 
Valiente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
You have an interesting point.

While there are certainly daredevil types in sailing, and corner-cutters in the subset of sailboat racing, prudence more often than not seems to prevail among the sailboat set, frequently I think because sailboat folk tend toward a DIY mentality, and are inherently more in tune with natural forces like wind and waves that more often than not are pushing the boat around.

As opposed to power boating (and I mean no insult here), sailboaters are obliged by the very nature of the game to develop patience, anticipatory and observational skills in order to exploit whatever conditions (and they can be dynamic in the extreme) that are presented to them. Thus, there is an interplay of passivity and activity you aren't always going to get when the answer is usually "apply more throttle". Powerboating tends toward the "go or don't go" solution set, whereas sailing, due to duration and the need to cover a longer term of time, is more like a puzzle with many possible solutions, only a few of which will kill you.

Nonetheless, no human activity is idiot-proof, and ample evidence of that is washed up on shore every year. Generally, however, if you get 20 sailors in a room, there will usually be a consensus that prudence and sometimes deep planning are essential to not only enjoying the sport, but surviving it.

Even at the "daredevil" end, like Vendee Globe sailors, the risks of going into the Southern Ocean in a featherweight sled are balanced against vast amounts of preparation, mental and physical training, and contingency analysis. Yes, these sailors frequently get into trouble, but they just as frequently get out of trouble, due to great preparedness and level-headedness.

Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Valiente is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
We're Sinking! jhulmer Seamanship & Navigation 32 11-05-2007 09:33 PM
Teen pulled from sinking boat - MyFox Tampa Bay NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-20-2007 05:15 PM
Couple and Pets Rescued from Sinking Sailboat near Anacortes - Helicopter Association International NewsReader News Feeds 0 03-29-2007 11:15 AM
Couple and Pets Rescued from Sinking Sailboat near Anacortes - Helicopter Association International NewsReader News Feeds 0 03-27-2007 10:15 AM
2 Colorado Men Rescued From Sinking Sailboat - TheDenverChannel.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 03-14-2007 11:15 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome