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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 02-03-2009
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Just a couple of fun guys out for a BFS!!
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2009
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Easy there pal. Cam will pounce and start another lame sailors thread!

BTW Woulda - can you actually STILL not get the whole BFS thing? Surely you're not that slow.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2009
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Surely you're not that slow.
Have you been talking to my wife??
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2009
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Easy there pal. Cam will pounce and start another lame sailors thread!

BTW Woulda - can you actually STILL not get the whole BFS thing? Surely you're not that slow.
This post has a tone of Dis-gruntled-ness. ;-)
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2009
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Well midlife - the whole anti-BFS thing gets a little silly at times. So whattayagonnado?

Don't worry I'm gruntled...just not neutered.

Anyway - Woulda had a great comeback so it's all good.

39512 - I would be interested in hearing your perspective since you actually know one of the guys. Beats a bunch of speculating.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 02-03-2009 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 02-05-2009
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I think that it was a convergence of factors. The guy I knew was less experienced than advertised. He was going through a divorce and he approached the delivery as a party and not as a potentially dangerous undertaking. The entire crew was pretty young and maybe a little arrogant.

At the time of the sinking, weather forecasting was fairly sketchy and the communication and navigation technology was archaic by todays standard. It was not uncommon to be out of touch for awhile. A powerful weather system, lax attitudes, poor communication, a lack of experience were all contributing factors.

To be honest, back then me or any one of many guys I knew could have been in that situation. Youth, a little dope, alcohol, arrogance and a big boat are a pretty toxic combination.

Trashman and Yankee Girl were wake-up calls for many of us.
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Old 02-05-2009
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Wow. Thanks 39. One other pattern that seems to be common in these stories is that of delivery. I always see people discussing how a schedule in sailing can quickly lead to trouble. I assume deliveries are always on a schedule - so I also assume this leads to increased risk. Is that just the way delivery works?

As for youth, questionable sobriety, and arrogance, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 02-05-2009
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It is great to have a schedule for the delivery of a vessel or your own voyage... But it is not carved in stone. When the schedule and reality start to conflict, you will find that it best to toss the schedule overboard and live with the reality and not try to force a schedule.
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Old 02-12-2009
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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
It is great to have a schedule for the delivery of a vessel or your own voyage... But it is not carved in stone. When the schedule and reality start to conflict, you will find that it best to toss the schedule overboard and live with the reality and not try to force a schedule.
I'd argue that this is wisdom that applies to much more than just sailboat deliveries.

As a "security guy," I frequently have a front-row seat watching people try to either ignore inconvenient risks or beat reality into submission pretty much every day. Occasionally they get away with it, but more often than not they wind up somewhere between a Keystone Kops scramble and outright disaster.

It makes me wonder if there isn't something inherently different about how sailors approach the world, because if not, I can't explain why there aren't more disasters like Trashman.
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Old 02-12-2009
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You have an interesting point.

While there are certainly daredevil types in sailing, and corner-cutters in the subset of sailboat racing, prudence more often than not seems to prevail among the sailboat set, frequently I think because sailboat folk tend toward a DIY mentality, and are inherently more in tune with natural forces like wind and waves that more often than not are pushing the boat around.

As opposed to power boating (and I mean no insult here), sailboaters are obliged by the very nature of the game to develop patience, anticipatory and observational skills in order to exploit whatever conditions (and they can be dynamic in the extreme) that are presented to them. Thus, there is an interplay of passivity and activity you aren't always going to get when the answer is usually "apply more throttle". Powerboating tends toward the "go or don't go" solution set, whereas sailing, due to duration and the need to cover a longer term of time, is more like a puzzle with many possible solutions, only a few of which will kill you.

Nonetheless, no human activity is idiot-proof, and ample evidence of that is washed up on shore every year. Generally, however, if you get 20 sailors in a room, there will usually be a consensus that prudence and sometimes deep planning are essential to not only enjoying the sport, but surviving it.

Even at the "daredevil" end, like Vendee Globe sailors, the risks of going into the Southern Ocean in a featherweight sled are balanced against vast amounts of preparation, mental and physical training, and contingency analysis. Yes, these sailors frequently get into trouble, but they just as frequently get out of trouble, due to great preparedness and level-headedness.
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