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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 01-11-2009
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bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
Valiente, I am not sure where you get your ideas, but in order to get a 6-pack you must have 360 days of sea time. Yes, i am aware RYA use mileage and not days at sea as their standard. I believe it is 2500 miles. At 5 knots x 20 hours a day =100 a day or 2500 miles in 25 days.

The fine print in the 6 pack is a day at sea is considered a watch of at least 4 hours. 360 days x 4 hours a day=1440 hours x 5 knots = 7200 miles.

Your statement about the insurance Co's favor the RYA. This may be true in Toronto, But I never had any problem getting insurance for any of 80+ deliveries i have made, including the islands and Nova Scotia. If your are going to run a charter boat in the US, The RYA will not do you any good as it is not recognized by the Coast Guard and therefore you would not be properly licensed and could not get insurance at all.

Last edited by bubb2; 01-11-2009 at 07:30 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2009
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I think we are talking at cross-purposes here.

Running a charter boat isn't the goal, getting the sort of certification that gets you credibility as a private yacht skipper in distant harbours and insurance discounts for those places that demand to see insurance is. The OUPV (the "Captain", not the "Master" ticket, which seems more "pro") appears to be like Step 1 in running a sailing B&B on the side, i.e. a charter boat going, say, from Miami to Grand Bahama.

I am just talking about offshore stuff. In Toronto, you can put boat insurance as a rider on car or house insurance. It is only recently that you needed a Pleasure Craft Operator's Card, which is a challenge test you can sit for $20 at a boat show and is extremely basic: the G1 very restricted car licence is more difficult to get, and almost anyone can get that.

A delivery skipper would gravitate, I suppose, to the "master's" version of the OUPV, because that's orientated toward a tonnage/seamanship requirement that seems to preclude extra crew. Or so it seems. I would imagine that if you ran, even as a sideline, a yacht delivery service, your clients and your insurers would want a 100-ton ticket.

It is a mystery to me, however, how the individual sailor is supposed to acquire this "sea time", as who actually counter-signs your 360 log sheets showing you sailing in circles in four-hour stretches? I must already have this, and unlike a lot of recreational sailors, I keep a dated log, but it's just me scribbling in a binder, if you know what I mean. The only "sea hours" I could conceivably get counter-signed would be the two days in 2007 I spent crewing for Alex in Portugal...which is maybe 26 hours in total, of maybe which I spent three alone on the helm in what I would consider "a watch"...

Show up in Britain on the other hand on your own keel and at least they KNOW you've done 25 or so straight days of 24-hour sailing...
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2009
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bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
Val if I may, The USCG licenses are commercial licenses meaning you must have one in the US order to take fare paying passengers on board. A delivery skipper who is hiring crew and not selling spots on the boat does not need a USCG license.

Canada is set up the RYA system and we in the US, like most things, have our own system that does not correlate to anything else in the world.
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Old 01-11-2009
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I've heard that the sea time requirement for the 6-pak is self certifying.


Quote:
Most recreational boaters do not maintain log books, so the Sea Service forms which are included in the USCG application package must be filled in using the honor system. This form consists of twelve boxes, one for each month of the year. Starting with the most recent year, you fill in the number of days you can best recall being on the water and then go backward in time to the age of 13 years old, or until the sea time requirements have been met. This time is then supported by proof of ownership of the vessel, if you are claiming time on your own boat. If you claim time on someone else's boat, then they must sign your sea service form.

Proof of ownership may include such documents as: registration papers, documentation papers, insurance papers, or bills of sale. Pictures are not considered acceptable.

To claim your time the vessels should be greater than sixteen (16) feet in length.
BOATWISE - CAPTAINS LICENSE CLASSES, 6 PAK, OUPV AND COAST GUARD LICENSES
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Last edited by erps; 01-11-2009 at 02:16 PM.
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bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
Here is a link to the sea service form. Yes, if you are the owner you can certify yourself. However, if you are not the owner it is my understanding the Coast Guard will only accept a sign off by another licensed person. As it was explain to me years ago, if you sign for yourself and it is determined you did not have the skills or time you could be charged with a crime. This information would come out during a accident investigation.

http://www.boatwise.com/pdf/719s.pdf
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2009
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Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
Here is a link to the sea service form. Yes, if you are the owner you can certify yourself. However, if you are not the owner it is my understanding the Coast Guard will only accept a sign off by another licensed person. As it was explain to me years ago, if you sign for yourself and it is determined you did not have the skills or time you could be charged with a crime. This information would come out during a accident investigation.

http://www.boatwise.com/pdf/719s.pdf
Thanks for posting the form. I didn't notice a requirement that the owner of a vessel you're serving on needs to be licensed, just that the owner of the vessel certifies that you put in the time. I'm interested because I plan on getting my 6-pak before we shove off and I've wondered myself how to document my sea time.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2009
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bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
I agree with you, it is not clear. I have had explained to me, if you notice the box where they ask the owner to sign, it reads Owner, operator or Master. This refers to the owner having either a 6 pack (oupv) or master license. This was a big debate in my licensing class, However the instructor who was ex-CG was very adamant about it. I know it does not make sense if if you own the boat you can sign off for yourself, hence the grounds for the debate. If any one knows different I would be interested myself.
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Old 01-12-2009
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I think we strayed off course here a bit!! :rant:
But it is still good info for the people who need it.

What brand is your Sextant? And do you have a license??
Just to bring us back to the Original topic at hand.
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Old 01-13-2009
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Old 01-13-2009
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Sextant training is on the list. I'll go the ASA route since I don't need to make a living on the water . . . although it would be a dream. I envy you guy’s who do.

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Last edited by retclt; 01-13-2009 at 09:45 AM.
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