Suction Salvage - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-10-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wherever
Posts: 5,261
Thanks: 8
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about
I don't think your point is being mistaken.
You could be in a dire emergency, use the engine to pump the bilge and clog the engine with bilge junk. You'd be in worse condition because now you have no engine to add to all your other problems. And the engine provides 12 volt for the pumps and radios.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 03-10-2009
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,604
Thanks: 2
Thanked 87 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
John-
"and you have no objection to the first usage in relation to the engine raw water intake strainer?" No objection, and just trying to keep an old word alive not meaning to be pedantic or anything. As long as your engine doesn't suck raw water from the bilge...or you don't sail in a bilge (G)... the raw water intake strainer is always a strainer, never a strum box. Dunno why, maybe it is to confound partially deaf highway robbers. "Where's the gold?" "In the strum box, down there." Yathink? (G)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 03-10-2009
JohnRPollard's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough
Nah, I didn't think you were being pedantic at all. Sailing is full of terminology, and I'm always eager to expand mine.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 03-10-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Strum box...haven't heard that in a while, although they are still a good idea. There's another term that isn't "sea chest", but contains the word "chest" that we might term a 'water manifold' today. That's what you get for reading a bunch of cruiser tales from the '20s to the '60s: a load of obscure sailing terms!

The Y-diverter idea on the engine intake is indeed a last ditch thing I would prefer to avoid, but it has its place as a way to winterize the raw water circuit by shutting off the seacock and putting a hose in a bottle of antifreeze. I do this with my Atomic 4, although I have to remove the thermostat and "top up" as it won't open in the 90 seconds it takes to drain the bottle, even if I pinch off a hose.

The PTO is the way to go for emergency bilge pumping, if only because it's possible to lose the 12 VDC at some point while still having the engine operating, and a PTO will run a purely mechanical pump very well.

I have a Rule 3700 for the main bilge aft of the engine (a deep well), a biggish Patay bulkhead-mounted manual pump, and a diverter for the Henderson manual pump in the head. I will be installing a second large capacity 12 VDC pump before we go, and a shower sump pump system of the very style that Omatako endorses.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 03-10-2009
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
HS—

Given how many GPM an engine's raw water cooling pump actually uses, there really isn't any point in rigging it and risking the engine on most sailboats. A 300 HP diesel might more a significant amount of water, but the 10-30 HP engines on most small sailboats don't move enough to be worthwhile.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 03-10-2009
tomaz_423's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 410
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
tomaz_423 will become famous soon enough
It looks that many people agree with my post no. 3.

Best confirmation that it makes no sense is this data from Valiente:
"90 seconds it takes to drain the bottle".
Let us say a bucket is 5 bottles.
So your engine suction system will do equivalent of 8 buckets per hour (or one bucket every 7:30 min.
So, you can forget it.
Even in 10 hours that is 80 buckets more water. This makes no difference (perhaps an inch more immersion)
But if it kills your engine then you loose alternator.
With alternator running you have about 13V on the bilge pump.
Without alternator you have maybe 12 V.
Pumping capacity increases or decreases a lot with that difference in V (for sure more then one bottle every 90 seconds.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Beneteau Oceanis 473

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

full time cruising
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 03-10-2009
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,604
Thanks: 2
Thanked 87 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
"Even in 10 hours that is 80 buckets more water."
If I was bailing by hand with a bucket, I'd still appreciate an 80-bucket break from the job.(G) Even it was only once every ten hours.

What part of "in an emergency" is still unclear? Or does everyone think an inconvenience and an emergency are the same thing? Two feet of water in the boat, that's a damned inconvenience. Two feet and still rising and all pumps still running--that's looking more like an emergency.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 03-11-2009
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,409
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Omatako will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Even in 10 hours that is 80 buckets more water."
If I was bailing by hand with a bucket, I'd still appreciate an 80-bucket break from the job.(G) Even it was only once every ten hours.

What part of "in an emergency" is still unclear? Or does everyone think an inconvenience and an emergency are the same thing? Two feet of water in the boat, that's a damned inconvenience. Two feet and still rising and all pumps still running--that's looking more like an emergency.
That's looking like a time to check the batteries on the EPIRB and get the life raft ready
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 03-11-2009
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Another electric bilge pump and not using the engine would do a lot more than a mere 80 buckets worth... and not risk you losing the engine when you may need it most. No engine—>no alternator—>no electricity to recharge batteries and power bilge pumps... while it sounds like a good idea, in reality it is a rather foolish one. Carrying another high-volume bilge pump and being able to power it makes much more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Even in 10 hours that is 80 buckets more water."
If I was bailing by hand with a bucket, I'd still appreciate an 80-bucket break from the job.(G) Even it was only once every ten hours.

What part of "in an emergency" is still unclear? Or does everyone think an inconvenience and an emergency are the same thing? Two feet of water in the boat, that's a damned inconvenience. Two feet and still rising and all pumps still running--that's looking more like an emergency.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 03-11-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaz_423 View Post
It looks that many people agree with my post no. 3.

Best confirmation that it makes no sense is this data from Valiente:
"90 seconds it takes to drain the bottle".
That's with the small accessory-drive Oberdorfer raw-water pump on an Atomic 4. But the Sherwood F-85 raw-water pump on my twice-as-large diesel is not radically larger (it's a very common pump), and I have no reason to assume that it would suck a wildly larger volume of water, just to judge by the hose sizes. So I think your calculations are correct: an engine cooling pump run off a small camshaft would only clear a small leak, whereas and higher volume electric pump with a 1 1/2" outlet, or a power take-off driven centrifugal pump, could clear water or debris-filled water more effectively.

I've even used a power washer to drain a bilge of clean water, because that pump moves far faster than a engine cooling pump could.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about Salvaged Boats skrap1r0n Boat Review and Purchase Forum 14 04-02-2007 03:48 AM
Boat salvage business booming in wake of flooding - WKYC-TV NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-03-2006 12:15 PM
Boat salvage business booming in wake of flooding - Akron Beacon Journal NewsReader News Feeds 0 08-03-2006 08:15 AM
Tow or Salvage? Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 09-06-2004 08:00 PM
Tow or Salvage? Kathy Barron Cruising Articles 0 09-06-2004 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:20 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.