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  #21  
Old 04-11-2009
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Or did the splice and link fail at the same time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
knothead,
looks a beaut splice. I couldnt agree more with what you said about maintenance. I would put a stainless link between the galv and nylon. Then again, I personally just use 10mm chain and would be very rusty at splicing.
DC
Both are a bit overdue in this picture (great picture) but they are equal. Re-doing the splice is a 15 minute job, and removing 1 link takes 2 seconds with bolt cutters. Neither would be unexpected, since you see the splice every time it is deployed.

How would you put in 1 link without using a weaker join? Many would like to know, I think.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2009
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I was thinking of a stainless link which you use to join 2 lengths of chain. It has a split section which you put together and splay the ends so it wont come undone. It will be slightly weaker than chain but a hell of a lot stronger of course than nylon. I havent got a photo but you must be able to get them over there.
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Old 04-11-2009
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Are you reffering to a "cold shut?" They are not very strong, so perhaps not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
I was thinking of a stainless link which you use to join 2 lengths of chain. It has a split section which you put together and splay the ends so it wont come undone. It will be slightly weaker than chain but a hell of a lot stronger of course than nylon. I havent got a photo but you must be able to get them over there.
Also, to be of real interest, it has to be compatible with chain gypsies. A photo would be great.
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2009
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Stainless steel is a horrible material to mix into an anchor rode. It also fails without warning and is susceptible to crevice corrosion. I would never use anything stainless steel on an anchor rode, except for SS wire for mousing the shackle pins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
knothead,
looks a beaut splice. I couldnt agree more with what you said about maintenance. I would put a stainless link between the galv and nylon. Then again, I personally just use 10mm chain and would be very rusty at splicing.
DC
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Old 04-12-2009
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Actually, in a proper anchor rode, that stainless steel piece would be the weakest link.

The SWL of 5/16 G4 high-test chain is about 3900 lbs. 5/8" nylon rode has a breaking strength of about 12,000 lbs. A 316SS 5/16" connecting link, like the one shown below, has a SWL of about 1000 lbs. Even a 316SS 5/16" hammerlock has a SWL of only 2700 lbs.

And neither will generally pass through a windlass gypsy without jumping out of the gypsy.



photos courtesy of bosunsupplies.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
I was thinking of a stainless link which you use to join 2 lengths of chain. It has a split section which you put together and splay the ends so it wont come undone. It will be slightly weaker than chain but a hell of a lot stronger of course than nylon. I havent got a photo but you must be able to get them over there.
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  #26  
Old 04-12-2009
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OK guys. I'm talking about the first pic from SD. I didn't know the strength but it wouldn't rust and would go over a gypsy - if you had a chain/rope gypsy. Anyway, as I said, I just use chain so I'll keep out of the discussion.
DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knothead View Post


I did the above splice 5 or 6 years ago. It was used hard and even drug across the barnacle encrusted boat bottom. There were numerous chafed areas.
There is no question that the more you deform a piece of line, whether by knotting, splicing or simply turning, the more you weaken it. However, there is usually more than enough safety margin built in that it becomes a moot point.
As with most other pieces of rigging, failures usually result from chafe or corrosion. Both of which are evident in the photo.
With proper use and inspection, These types of failures can most always be avoided.

It looks like you separate the strands when you pass it through the last chain length while I run the entire rope through and then do the splice. Not sure if there is much difference in our methods, but one of the web sites show that my way is wrong. My thought process was that the rope is the strongest when all three strands are woven together rather than unraveled even though it was difficult in passing the entire rope thru the last link. Actually the tight fit may be beneficial in that there is less likely to be movement with resulting chafe. Ignoring chafe (which should never be ignored) the weakest link is the chain assuming that there is no stainless swivel in the mix. It would be interesting to see the failure point of the three stand and see how much knots....splices.. and type of splices we are talking about degrade performance. Even 3/16 inch three strand has a breaking strength of 1200 pounds which is the smallest diameter I could find in WM catelog. Maybe a cheaper grade line could be used and an experiment set up which would not require too much force for breakage. But as someone here said the breakage will probably be at the sharp bend and not at the knot or spice itself...it's just a matter of how much the line is degraded.
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You're really supposed to separate the three laid strands—it puts less stress on the individual fibers for the reason I stated previously. You're not doing an eyesplice. You're doing a backsplice around the anchor chain link.

BTW, the chain is usually half the diameter of the rope. 5/16" chain for 5/8" rope, etc... the swl on g43 High-test 5/16" chain is 3900 lbs. The tensile strength of 5/8" nylon rope is about 11,000-12,000 lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
It looks like you separate the strands when you pass it through the last chain length while I run the entire rope through and then do the splice. Not sure if there is much difference in our methods, but one of the web sites show that my way is wrong. My thought process was that the rope is the strongest when all three strands are woven together rather than unraveled even though it was difficult in passing the entire rope thru the last link. Actually the tight fit may be beneficial in that there is less likely to be movement with resulting chafe. Ignoring chafe (which should never be ignored) the weakest link is the chain assuming that there is no stainless swivel in the mix. It would be interesting to see the failure point of the three stand and see how much knots....splices.. and type of splices we are talking about degrade performance. Even 3/16 inch three strand has a breaking strength of 1200 pounds which is the smallest diameter I could find in WM catelog. Maybe a cheaper grade line could be used and an experiment set up which would not require too much force for breakage. But as someone here said the breakage will probably be at the sharp bend and not at the knot or spice itself...it's just a matter of how much the line is degraded.

Hate to break it to you, but the stainless steel link would rust, starting between the two parts where it connects together. The rust might not be visible, but it would be there...weakening the link. It would also likely jump the gypsy, since it is not the same dimensions as a normal chain link. It is a really, really bad idea to use connecting links in the chain of an anchor rode. It is a really, really bad idea to splice the line in an anchor rode.


Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
OK guys. I'm talking about the first pic from SD. I didn't know the strength but it wouldn't rust and would go over a gypsy - if you had a chain/rope gypsy. Anyway, as I said, I just use chain so I'll keep out of the discussion.
DC
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Last edited by sailingdog; 04-12-2009 at 06:28 PM.
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  #29  
Old 04-12-2009
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Ancoralatina,

I had the bluemoment article type splice on my anchor for about a year and it held us without a hitch through some pretty tough conditions. It's certainly an easy splice to do and it doesn't catch on anything like thimbles or shackles do. I've heard (but have no proof) that this splice was originally used for splicing rope to chain in the rigging of square riggers.

Only problem I found with it is that it did chafe quite a bit. This seemed to be because that last foot or so of chain lays on the bottom but also moves around quite a bit as the boat moves. As the chain moves, it rubs the rope across the bottom. The bottoms we get around here tend to be mostly mud with mixed in stones, sea shells, general crud, that can be quite abrasive on rope.

Still, it wasn't really an issue because the splice can be examined every time it goes in or comes out. I've now gone to the backsplice over the last link method just to see how it compares. Early days yet so nothing really to report.
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Old 04-15-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
You're really supposed to separate the three laid strands—it puts less stress on the individual fibers for the reason I stated previously. You're not doing an eyesplice. You're doing a backsplice around the anchor chain link.

[/B]
I understand what you're saying about separating the three laid strands and how that is a back splice vs an eye splice. What I'm saying is that I'm doing an eye splice around the last chain length....with out the metal thimble and consequently a smaller radius and possibly a reduction is strength vs the back splice. Not positive if the splice that I'm putting on is any weaker than a typical back splice that the web sites show. Anchoratlantia makes the following point which seems valid:

"I can’t see how (or why?) the fact to separate the three strands or splicing the whole rope will change something; the radius is still the diameter of the chain link... (at least for the inner fibers, and not that much bigger for the external ones."

The elongated splice is the best if it wasn't for the potental chafe with the chain lengths. IMHO

And while the splice that I'm using does not pass effortlessly through the chain gyspy it does pass through the deck pipe whereas an eye splice with the metal thimble would not.

Oh....Anchoratlantia, do you have some photos for the failures of the splices in your anchor tests? Thanks.
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