Right of way scenario... - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 05-18-2009
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 26
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacampbe View Post
Would a hove-to boat with the skipper eating lunch count as "not under command?"
Not under command means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. Usually that means that the propulsion system or steering system is BROKEN DOWN.

Jack
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 05-18-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Was Boat A displaying the required dayshape to indicate "not under command"? I would suggest "restricted maneuverability" would be in fact the correct dayshape.

My guess is no, you were not.

You were in fact sailing if you were making two knots, indicating you were in a current or your boat was not stalled out and drifting downwind. You just weren't sailing very well. I would suggest that it would be difficult for a boat sailing close-hauled at five or six knots to distinguish your "hove to" from "poor sailing, but sailing nonetheless" as two knots is pretty fast movement for "hove to". Had you displayed the appropriate dayshapes (which I know few own and fewer use, even fishermen or dredgers), there would have been less ambiguity and more a response of "I don't know what those cones and balls mean, but I do know I'll give it a wide berth...READY TO TACK..."

You were counting on another sailor to divine your intention to remain hove-to. That's not his duty. You were moving, if slowly, and were the windward boat. Therefore the onus was on you to make your intentions known to him. You could've used a signal horn, also, or a bell, but that's not generally understood these days either, although it's probably a better bet than dayshapes!
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 05-18-2009
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 26
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post
Was Boat A displaying the required dayshape to indicate "not under command"? I would suggest "restricted maneuverability" would be in fact the correct dayshape.
I do not think a hove-to vessel is RAM

Quote:
The term "vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to:

(i) a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline,

(ii) a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations,

(iii) a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway,

(iv) a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft,

(v) a vessel engaged in mineclearance operations,

(vi) a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
I use an MOB method that involves heaving-to twice. It ensures that we can manoeuvre.

Jack
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)

Last edited by jackdale; 05-18-2009 at 12:42 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 05-18-2009
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jimmytc is on a distinguished road
IMHO a boat that is "Hove to" is not sailing and may as well be at anchor,even more so if wind on starboard, and hence should be stand on vessel.
And yes, I agree-need to display the dayshapes!!

Last edited by jimmytc; 05-18-2009 at 12:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 05-18-2009
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I do not think a hove-to vessel is RAM
Jack
Technically, you're correct. However, I would argue that hoisting a dayshape in this situation (boat is semi-sailing, crew is below) is better than nothing.

As my wife commented when I had her read this entire thread to make sure I was making sense, "if you pull over just onto the shoulder on the highway without putting on your four-way blinkers, how am I to predict when you are going to open your door, or whether you are still even running the engine? I have no information as to your intentions."

This is why I have full confidence in my wife's ability to take a watch and helm. She thinks this way out of the box!
__________________
Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 05-18-2009
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 26
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmytc View Post
IMHO a boat that is "Hove to" is not sailing and may as well be at anchor,even more so if wind on starboard, and hence should be stand on vessel.
And yes, I agree-need to display the dayshapes!!
In fact, hove-to is sailing.

The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.

Jack
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 05-18-2009
WouldaShoulda's Avatar
AEOLUS II
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: From The Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 2,720
Thanks: 3
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 6
WouldaShoulda is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
Boat A- enjoying a nice day on the water, hove to, eating lunch. Boat B- jerk that felt it necessary to demonstrate his lack of class.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 05-18-2009
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 26
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post
Technically, you're correct. However, I would argue that hoisting a dayshape in this situation (boat is semi-sailing, crew is below) is better than nothing.
There is no day-shape for hove-to.

Hove-to is sailing. (see previous post #16)

You are also required to maintain a lookout at all times.

Jack
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)

Last edited by jackdale; 05-18-2009 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 05-18-2009
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,831
Thanks: 26
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Check out pages 170 -171 of the following:

TinyURL.com - shorten that long URL into a tiny URL

A hove-to vessel on a port tack must keep out of the way of a vessel on a starboard tack. In this case the hove-to vessel was reefing.

Jack
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)

Last edited by jackdale; 05-18-2009 at 01:17 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 05-18-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 213
Thanks: 5
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 6
ctl411 is on a distinguished road
Rule 13 Overtaking) Regardless of ANY other rule,an overtaking vessel must keep out of the way. Boat B is a ASS. Boat A was right in getting ready to makeway,risk of collision if in doubt assume collision.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Owning a Boat is EXPENSIVE! CaptainFredGreenfield Boat Review and Purchase Forum 227 07-25-2009 07:16 PM
Scenario deniseO30 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 26 10-13-2007 11:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:30 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.