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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 06-03-2009
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Valiente,
you picked up on something I didn't mention because I didn't want to stray from the topic but..
This storm was my first real offshore storm (1993). Because of the severity of that storm motoring into the waves was really very stupid. But that was the extent of our knowledge (thankfully God loves and protects stupid people too). The waves were so big that I spotted a freighter off my starboard quarter a few miles off and then didn’t see him again until he was off my port beam some twenty minutes later (and don‘t you know I was looking!).
The dripless stuffing box, after pounding for all those hours, started to implode. The prop would cavitate when the bow was thrown forward into a trough. This set off a series of events that took the lives of all our electrical bilge pumps (2) and then our manual. I , being the only one who didn't get seasick, had to bail out 30 to 40 gallons of seawater from the bilge ever 40 minutes to keep water from reaching the engine. I think the stupidest (is that a real word?) thing we did through that whole storm was to bring our life raft onto deck “just in case”. Frankly, if the boat couldn’t take this storm and our incompetence how could a plastic blow-up raft take it?

I have to say the Almond Pilothouse Motor sailor didn’t motor very well or sail very well but it was built like a brick house.

Sailingdog,
I know I am being a bit dense on this point but remember I’m a blonde on davocet. With the drogue I can make some course changes because it just slows me down, with the parachute I am “parked” and if in a collision situation can’t make course changes.

Saildork,
thanks for the suggestion I think I'll do just that. Did I mention that we had a psycho crew member on board too?

Storm,psycho, and sinking aside... It was a great ride!

Thanks for the input,
Erika

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
- Unknown
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  #12  
Old 06-03-2009
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Okay - psychos and liferafts? Now you HAVE to go throw down the whole thing in BFS. I've teed it up for you.
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  #13  
Old 06-03-2009
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Thanks for the detail, OG. I agree you were most fortunate. I suppose all that bucket work saved you from hypothermia! Talk about motivation!

I'm not having much luck Googling "almond pilothouse cutter 37 foot". Do you have any links or pictures that would help us visualize this boat?
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2009
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Sorry, its 37 Allmand pilothouse cutter. They make a 31,35, and 37 I think.
This link is to a 35
Allmand Pilothouse 35 yacht for sale
GREAT live aboard. Head in the bow which means it breaks on day two of every offshore passage.
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Old 06-03-2009
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Think of the drogue as an ACTIVE helper- keeps you slower and under better control while running off, but requires full time steering. The parachute is for when you desparately need a rest and are willing to just hang in there for a day or two. One needs to be conscious of sea room, currents, and the probable storm track in either case. Most failures have been due to unfair leads and chafe.

We have an Outbound 44 with 18,000 nm under the keel in BC, Alaska, and 2 seasons in the South Pacific and have never used either device. Max winds seen: 45-50 knots.

I don't think there are many sailboats that can motor into an 80kn hurricane and make forward progress. Best not to rely that much on the engine, at most using it to keep speed up in the troughs with little or no canvas up.
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  #16  
Old 06-03-2009
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This is not entirely true... it depends on what type of drogue you are using. If you're dragging warps, or a GaleRider type drogue, then yes, it may require active steering. A Jordan Series Drogue does not require active steering.


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Originally Posted by craigjohnston View Post
Think of the drogue as an ACTIVE helper- keeps you slower and under better control while running off, but requires full time steering. The parachute is for when you desparately need a rest and are willing to just hang in there for a day or two. One needs to be conscious of sea room, currents, and the probable storm track in either case. Most failures have been due to unfair leads and chafe.

We have an Outbound 44 with 18,000 nm under the keel in BC, Alaska, and 2 seasons in the South Pacific and have never used either device. Max winds seen: 45-50 knots.

I don't think there are many sailboats that can motor into an 80kn hurricane and make forward progress. Best not to rely that much on the engine, at most using it to keep speed up in the troughs with little or no canvas up.
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  #17  
Old 06-03-2009
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I guess I made it sound like the 80 knot blow was a walk in the park. We made no forward progress in that blow, at around 2200 rpms ( I think that was the rpms, it was a long time ago) our SOG was 4 knots backwards. Furthermore, there wasn't a spot on my body that wasn't black and blue, It was exhausting work just to stay wedged in the bunk. The seas were freaky big but the troughs were filled with foam so it looked rather flat. The wind in the rigging was so loud that someone could scream right into your ear and you would hear absolutely nothing. There was no way any canvas could of been put out and I can't explain how the engine kept up with it. (It was a turbo 40 HP ?)

How can a drogue not require active steering? She is still sailing down the wave- even at a slower speed wont she still want to head up? Would you locked the helm perfect mid-ship?
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The amount of resistance created by the drogue and the design purpose of the drogue determine whether active steering is needed or not.

A speed reducing drogue, that is designed to just slow the boat, like the GaleRider, requires active steering to work properly. Among the other speed reducing drogues would be trailing warps, dragging your anchor and rode behind the boat, etc.

A Jordan Series Drogue is not a speed reducing drogue. It produces far too much drag to work as one of those. It is a speed limiting drogue and essentially keeps the boat relatively still compared to the water surrounding it...with the boat making 1-2 knots generally. This type of device does not require active steering, since the boat is held stern to waves fairly solidly and fairly consistently. However, it does require that the drogue be properly sized for the boat.

As for a boat's tendency to head up...no, that isn't the case on most newer designs. If you read Don Jordan's paper on anchoring/mooring and why modern boats tend to horse at anchor, you'd understand why this is the case.

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How can a drogue not require active steering? She is still sailing down the wave- even at a slower speed wont she still want to head up? Would you locked the helm perfect mid-ship?
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a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #19  
Old 06-03-2009
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Thank you sailingdog for the clarification. Boy do I learn a lot on this site!

Have you heard of anyone deploying the JSD off the bow too? What I am getting at is instead of buying a parachute for the times I need to head into the wind and a drogue for the times I need to run, why not find something that can do both.

Is that crazy talk?

Erika
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2009
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Erika—

According to Don Jordan, the JSD should NEVER be deployed from the bow. Boats are far more likely to be seriously damaged lying bow-to with a sea anchor than they are lying stern to with a JSD IMHO.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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