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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 06-04-2009
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Beating a dead horse :)

Not to sound like a toddler but..
Why? Why is it more likely to sustain damage when riding "bow-to" then "stern to"? Isnt the bow the strongest part?
I did go to JDS and read up(thanks for the suggestion) and it was very interesting, I was surprised how up to date he was, using hurricane IKE info/stats.

Sorry if I am beating a dead horse, thanks for taking the time to explain all this to a landlocked wish-I-was-back-on-my-boat Ocean Girl.

PS land dwellers are a strange lot
Erika
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2009
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hehe damn land dwellers!
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2009
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Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Erika—

According to Don Jordan, the JSD should NEVER be deployed from the bow. Boats are far more likely to be seriously damaged lying bow-to with a sea anchor than they are lying stern to with a JSD IMHO.
C'mon Dog - this doesn't sound right. I know you're all about the JSD - but I don't buy the assertion that a boat is more likely to be "seriously damaged" lying bow-to a sea anchor. I'm no Jeff, but typically the front of a boat is built to withstand more force than the back.

I don't think there's any argument that running is more comfortable - but lots can still go wrong if/when seas slam the stern. Most likely with more serious damage/consequences than if the bow was slammed. Right?

Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-04-2009 at 12:28 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-04-2009
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If only Lynnette would straighten us out,... hmmm. Wonder where she is.
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  #25  
Old 06-04-2009
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I think it is because you're comparing apples to oranges. The problem with a sea-anchor in breaking waves is that the waves will crash on the superstructure, which often is the most vulnerable part - You don't wish it to crash in the cockpit either (and even though the cockpit is probably stronger, you don't want it full of water). But with the drogue the risk of having a wave crash on you is vastly diminished. I believe (as SD) that the best (but far from perfect) device for that is the JSD. You have to ask yourself one question "If you ever experienced something with breakers, were you more worried about the waves slamming against the hull or the ones crashing on top of the cabin?", well what was it, Punk?
I also do NOT buy the "slick" thing that the Pardeys talk about, but even IF it works, their vessel is very different from most modern yachts, and I doubt that ANY of us can lie to a bridle like they do?



Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
C'mon Dog - this doesn't sound right. I know you're all about the JSD - but I don't buy the assertion that a boat is more likely to be "seriously damaged" lying bow-to a sea anchor. I'm no Jeff, but typically the front of a boat is built to withstand more force than the back.

I don't think there's any argument that running is more comfortable - but lots can still go wrong if/when seas slam the stern. Most likely with more serious damage/consequences than if the bow was slammed. Right?
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  #26  
Old 06-04-2009
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I think it is because you're comparing apples to oranges. The problem with a sea-anchor in breaking waves is that the waves will crash on the superstructure, which often is the most vulnerable part - You don't wish it to crash in the cockpit either (and even though the cockpit is probably stronger, you don't want it full of water). But with the drogue the risk of having a wave crash on you is vastly diminished. I believe (as SD) that the best (but far from perfect) device for that is the JSD. You have to ask yourself one question "If you ever experienced something with breakers, were you more worried about the waves slamming against the hull or the ones crashing on top of the cabin?", well what was it, Punk?
I also do NOT buy the "slick" thing that the Pardeys talk about, but even IF it works, their vessel is very different from most modern yachts, and I doubt that ANY of us can lie to a bridle like they do?
Okay, Dirty - I get that. And I have no experience in this whatsoever - so I'm just going on what I've read and a whole bunch of ignorant assumptions. It's the big "IMCUBROO" (in my completely uninformed but readily offered opinion) for me here.

BUT here's where it seems your example breaks down from a common sense standpoint:

From what I've read, the chute sea anchor holds the boat in place with maybe 1 knot or so of leeward drift. The JSD apparently does the same. So, with either one of these devices, you're still gonna get hit by that breaker with the same relative velocity and force.

Now we come down to where you get hit. I understand that loads of water hammering down onto your house top is bad news. But is it really any better hammering down into/onto your cockpit, crew and main hatch? Will this really do less "serious damage"? That part sounds kind of jinky to me.

I guess I'm thinking of the "aquatic impact" more from the standpoint of the end of the boat punching through breaking water instead of having it dropped onto the superstructure. In this case - isn't the bow better equipped structurally to handle the "punch" than the stern? And isn't the water dropping down thing far more rare than the punch through scenario anyway?

Incidentally, I agree that the slick thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. But their assertion that the bow quartered into the waves is more structurally sound - although more uncomfortable - does make sense enough to have gotten into a lot of heavy weather tactic books.

Anyway - everyone knows that the ONLY device any of us really needs is the SeaBrake. So we should just put this to bed now.

BTW - did you count your shots?

Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-04-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2009
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SmackDaddy,

Naa, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself

I have not read all the stuff about the different drogues/anchors, but it is my experience that the forces are very different, and that the JSD does not drop your speed to 1 knot, but that it keeps a more constant tension, thus ensuring that you ride the waves in such a way that you avoid the breakers, and/or getting pitch poled. I (as crew) has once streamed a JSD and it helped us ride the seas, when we were too scared and tired to handsteer any longer, but to be honest it was not a survival storm, and we would probably have survived without it.
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Last edited by JomsViking; 06-04-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2009
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Cool Joms - then I'll humbly defer to your actual hands-on experience. This once. Mind you, not because I have a poster of the JSD above my bed like some - but because you have a big freakin' gun and squinty eyes...and have actually used the damn thing (the drogue - not the 44).

Anyway, was pulling the thing in a bummer? How'd you rig it?
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2009
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oceangirl------- after looking at the allmand picture, i would not want to go far from shore on one--too many big windows to be safe in a major storm! you were lucky. i prefer small ports that won't get bashed in as easy.
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  #30  
Old 06-04-2009
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Captbillc,
Yeah I agree, My only excuse is that I was young (20) and stupid and wanted to go offshore so bad any old thing would do.
But seriously, The big ports were a worry and before we went offshore the owner fixed clear 1/4 inch lexan covers for added protection. But when you know that a square of water about the size of a stove weighs 2 tons (or something like that) and you have big mountains of water churning all around you ..well...praying helps too..

I have a cape dory now and so I don't worry anymore (Spartan bronze rocks).
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