Drogues/parachutes - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 69 Old 06-02-2009 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
oceangirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 252
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Drogues/parachutes

I'm recovering from surgery at a friends house and missing my boat terribly ( I live aboard). So to occupy my time I am researching storm survival skills. I was thinking about drogues and parachutes.

I like the book by the Pardeys Storm Tactics, and what they say makes sense. But researching storm tactics, drogues are by far the preferred method by a majority of offshore sailors.

A few drawbacks I see is

1) you are running with the storm and therefore will be in the storm longer than "parking " and letting it pass overhead.

2) Risk of fouling the rudder and prop due to it being deployed off the stern.

3) retrieval seems to be the biggest problem but the parachute has the same hazard

The worst conditions I have ever encountered was 80 plus knots in the Atlantic for about 15 hours. It was the first offshore trip for crew and captain. In that storm I was in a 37 foot Almond pilothouse cutter and we just ran the motor and headed into the wind till the storm subsided (speed over ground was 4 knots backwards).
Now I have a Cape Dory 30, full keel with cutaway forefoot, keel hung rudder and weighs about 5 tons (Lighter, and more narrow than the Pardeys).

Really, the big selling point to me for drogues is that you seem to be able to make small course changes or am I wrong about that.

Anyone want to weigh in I’d appreciate it.

Erika
oceangirl is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 69 Old 06-02-2009
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,361
Thanks: 147
Thanked 131 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Hey ocean - welcome to SN, dude-ette!

We've had some great conversations about this. Here are a couple of threads you should check out.

HWS

And, Dog's inimitable thread:

JSD

PS - Just a word of advice - NEVER have surgery at a friend's house.
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 69 Old 06-02-2009 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
oceangirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 252
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
One word-Darvocet

Sorry, forgot about searching other threads- Maybe researching storm tactics while doped up on pain meds isn't such a good idea
Erika
oceangirl is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 69 Old 06-02-2009
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,361
Thanks: 147
Thanked 131 Times in 124 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
It's cool. It'll be good to hear your take on this stuff as well...as soon as you're sober of course. Otherwise, you'll just sound like me.
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 69 Old 06-02-2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Otherwise, you'll just sound like me.
how would that be??? doped up... well that answers a few questions
scottyt is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 69 Old 06-03-2009
Senior Member
 
Valiente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
I can tell you one thing: If you tried something in 80 knots of wind that didn't destroy the boat or kill you in the process, you've got more practical experience than 99% of the people here. Motoring directly into the storm wouldn't be my first choice because of the danger that sustained high revs (and possibly having the prop out of the water at times and the pressure on the rudder being forced backwards) would pooch the engine at some point...and then you roll stern-first off a 20 foot wave in a reverse pitchpole?

Not fun.

But as I wrote, if it didn't kill you, it's not ruled out, right? Good luck with your recovery.

Can't sleep? Read my countdown to voyaging blog @
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Valiente is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 69 Old 06-03-2009
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangirl View Post
I'm recovering from surgery at a friends house and missing my boat terribly ( I live aboard). So to occupy my time I am researching storm survival skills. I was thinking about drogues and parachutes.

I like the book by the Pardeys Storm Tactics, and what they say makes sense. But researching storm tactics, drogues are by far the preferred method by a majority of offshore sailors.

A few drawbacks I see is

1) you are running with the storm and therefore will be in the storm longer than "parking " and letting it pass overhead.
But you're also going to be hit a lot less hard because you're moving with the storm. A parachute type sea anchor deployed from the bow leaves you very vulnerable to getting clobbered. If the parachute collapses or the rode gets slack in it, you can end up going backwards and seriously damage the rudder.

Quote:
2) Risk of fouling the rudder and prop due to it being deployed off the stern.
Not really. A properly designed drogue has too much of a load on it and too much tension on the rode for it to ever become fouled in the rudder or prop, unless you did something wrong deploying it. Also, on most boats, the prop is too far inboard to be at risk, and most rudders don't have much that a drogue can foul on.

Quote:
3) retrieval seems to be the biggest problem but the parachute has the same hazard
Yes, retrieval, especially if you attempt it before the storm has really ended, is a royal PITA.

Quote:
The worst conditions I have ever encountered was 80 plus knots in the Atlantic for about 15 hours. It was the first offshore trip for crew and captain. In that storm I was in a 37 foot Almond pilothouse cutter and we just ran the motor and headed into the wind till the storm subsided (speed over ground was 4 knots backwards).
While this may have worked in that instance, if you had had any trouble with the engine, like a clogged fuel filter, you would have been basically screwed... IMHO, you were very lucky in many respects. Also, the fact that you didn't damage the rudder was sheer luck IMHO as well.

Quote:
Now I have a Cape Dory 30, full keel with cutaway forefoot, keel hung rudder and weighs about 5 tons (Lighter, and more narrow than the Pardeys).
The full keel, even cutaway, means that it will be more stable directionally than most more modern designs. It will probably also heave-to more graciously than many more modern designs as well.

Quote:
Really, the big selling point to me for drogues is that you seem to be able to make small course changes or am I wrong about that.
It depends on what kind of drogue you are using. The JSD is designed to be a "fire-and-forget" type device, which is purposely designed to not require a helmsman steering so that the captain and crew of a boat using one can get some decent rest during a storm after it has been deployed.

Quote:
Anyone want to weigh in I’d appreciate it.

Erika
BTW, I wrote the post on the Jordan Series Drogue that SmackDaddy pointed you to earlier... watch out for the meds... they can lead to some interesting situations if you're typing while on them...

I wish you a speedy recovery and I'd highly recommend you read this POST to help you get the most out of sailnet.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 69 Old 06-03-2009
Senior Member
 
saildork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 295
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Hey Erika,

Be sure to post your 'storm at sea' story to Smackdaddy's "Big Freaking Sails" thread. Sounds like your experience of 15 hours in 80 knots of wind won't need any embellishments.

Sailing isn't a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that!
saildork is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 69 Old 06-03-2009
Senior Member
 
SecondWindNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 520
Thanks: 3
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Captain Dad has weathered some pretty undesirable conditions offshore by hunkering down with a sea anchor (parachute) out, and swears by them. Keeps the bow -- the strongest part of the boat -- facing into the seas.

Carolina Wind Yachting Center, Washington, NC
Charters * Brokerage * Pacific Seacraft * Zodiac


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little.

Last edited by SecondWindNC; 06-03-2009 at 03:50 PM.
SecondWindNC is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 69 Old 06-03-2009
Senior Member
 
johnshasteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 652
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Like you and everyone here has said so far - every boat and every storm is different. So, just figure that whatever you plan for isn't going to work anyway. Paloma has been through two Force 10 storms and we ran before the storm in both storms (first one 48 hours, second storm 36 hours) with no drogues. The first time was because we didn't know any better and in the second storm, we lost the engine and the main, so we had no choice but to run. We needed the boat speed to keep from being pooped or broaching, luckily in both storms, we had 600s++ miles of sea room.

s/v Paloma, Bristol 29.9, #141
Slipped in Bahia Marina, easy access to Corpus Christi Bay and the Gulf of Mexico.

Last edited by johnshasteen; 06-03-2009 at 11:32 AM.
johnshasteen is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome