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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 11-18-2002
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Is Radar an absolute necessity?

Nope. I''m the “Pirate of Cape Ann” everywhere I go. It''s the only moniker I use. My wife is "Pirate''s Maiden", and boy, don''t she hate boats! ; )
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2002
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Is Radar an absolute necessity?

In an article several years ago - maybe even like 10 - in Cruising World or Sail there was an account of a couple in their 35 some foot sailboat, under sail, in a channel in heavy fog. They were involved in a collision. They had radar, but it was not on because of battery drain. There were cited as being partially at fault because they were not using their radar,
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Old 11-21-2002
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Is Radar an absolute necessity?

Radar is not an absolute necessity but can add a lot of safety and make the difference between being snug in an anchorage or waiting until daybreak to enter an unlighted harbor.

I live and sail in San Francisco and have not really felt the need for radar in the legendary fog on the bay. When I was in Mexico a few years ago radar went a long way to make up for the lack of functioning navigation aids (lights).

My use of radar is so intermitant that I dont see it as being a big threat to the amp hour budget.

As to choosing between being in the cockpit or looking at your radar display, why not do both? Put a waterproof LCD display in the cockpit.

I enjoy reading the Pardees books but have not removed my engine or thrown my batteries overboard yet. Actually I have found that the electronics on my boat rarely disappoint me and add a lot of convenience and safety to my sailing adventures.
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2002
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Is Radar an absolute necessity?

Aucassin:

Sometimes we get all pumped up about our particular knowledge of a subject and fail to either respond to the post or acknowledge how the real world works.

First, the Pardeys - wonderful folks with an astounding set of accomplishments, both sailing and commercial - view electronics as tho'' they are still being built of transistors in the early 1980''s. Radars today are not only highly reliable but flexibly programmable. There''s no reason amp draw should categorically remove radar from use on a boat capable of offshore or alongshore cruising; just set your zone and scan timing to suit your needs.

Once a collision occurs, along with a loss for which you are seeking coverage while hoping to avoid blame, all facts associated with the collision will be considered. There''s no giant maritime rule book that says you will or will not be covered, fined or sued should you be equipped with radar but not use it. OTOH the issue will be in part whether each party conducted themselves in a prudent, seamanlike manner. Since half of each day is dark, sailboat crews at sea are often short-handed, and there''s often less than unlimited visibility, it''s pretty easy to imagine how lack of a radar''s use could be seen as contributory to the loss. And yes, the ROR''s have been used as the legal basis for radar non-use to be considered contributory.

Radar is a big help to offshore, short-handed crews. It''s no panacea but is close to adding a crew member, assuming it''s properly tuned and programmed for the conditions. One of the things we found most helpful about using it - even in the clear Caribbean - is that it allowed us to anticipate close crossing situations well before visual sightings made this possible (even in clear daylight), after which a patient, professional call on VHF resulted in the ship changing course to suit the sailboat many times. When running down wind with all sails vanged and on the vane, this is a big labor savings...and it''s usually fun to talk to the other ship''s crew, too. Using radar effectively is a bit like playing a musical instrument; you get the most value from it when you apply some effort to its use - as opposed to a knotmeter or, oftentimes, a GPS readout. I think that''s why some folks undersell radar; they turn it on and then occasional stare at it, expecting it to ''do something'', I guess.

Radar has no downsides that I can see except the financial one. Whether it justifies the expense is a function of multiple factors: the cruising grounds, size of crew, how long it will be earning its keep, what effort the crew makes to use it effectively, and what one must not buy because of installing radar among them.

For Sailnet fans, you might want to look at Liza''s article on this topic: http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=copela0018

Jack
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Old 02-13-2015
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Re: Is Radar an absolute necessity?

IMO, Rich is correct. Just as important as the wording of any rule or law, is its interpretation by the courts. The rule says "all available means", and the courts have taken that to mean "if you have radar, it better be on regardless of conditions." I've heard it said that having radar can increase your liability in a collision, not using it correctly is one more thing you did wrong. My commercial vessels always run with the radar on, but I do not have radar on my own boat and do not plan to get it.

Last edited by capt jgwinks; 02-13-2015 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 02-13-2015
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Re: Is Radar an absolute necessity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucassin View Post
I am trying to understand the complexities of sound navigation skills with the variety of electronic "must haves."
From studying various blue water circumnavigators, I cannot see the significance of having such a reliance on radar as to preclude them from not venturing forth without it. Radar does have it share of glory in the battle with fear, but caveats abound.
I am trying to justify the voltage expense with a down to earth sailboat,which tries to stay away from a total reliance on electronic nav gear. After review, I would rather keep my head out of the boat than tied to a screen somewhere in the boat.
One example which I find encouraging is the Pardeys. Their experience is well documented and applauded and yet have a boat with almost no "demanding" electronic habits to help them. Can one safely, with a little experience and common sense, do away with our increasingly heavy reliance on radar?
Am I being prudent here or just stubborn. You decide.
I understand what you're asking. While I love electronic navigation, I like a simple boat as well and have rarely missed not having radar. I think I sail and navigate differently without radar, and I'm good with that.
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Old 02-13-2015
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Re: Is Radar an absolute necessity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt jgwinks View Post
IMO, Rich is correct. Just as important as the wording of any rule or law, is its interpretation by the courts. The rule says "all available means", and the courts have taken that to mean "if you have radar, it better be on regardless of conditions." I've heard it said that having radar can increase your liability in a collision, not using it correctly is one more thing you did wrong. My commercial vessels always run with the radar on, but I do not have radar on my own boat and do not plan to get it.
Perhaps you meant to say "Rich was correct" as it was 13 years ago. Hopefully the OP isn't still waffling on radar.


goat
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Old 02-13-2015
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Re: Is Radar an absolute necessity?

13 year old thread. Can we give it a break?
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Old 02-14-2015
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Re: Is Radar an absolute necessity?

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
13 year old thread. Can we give it a break?
How about we cut and paste bits from other dead threads, raise the product up to the roof, and wait for a lightning storm?

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Old 02-14-2015
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Re: Is Radar an absolute necessity?

Why not pin this one and start afresh?
However, as it's still running...
Radar has evolved over the intervening years and the small but capable units currently available at 4G are worthy of seperate discussion.
Agree with interpretation that confirms the rule:- if you have it and it's functional (not just switched off) you must use it.
Given the functions available to small craft these days on modern equipment you might be considered contributory in any incident if you were not using it. Would like to see leaned maritime legal opinion on this contention, but maybe elsewhere?
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