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-   -   Entering the slip with a strong crosswind (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-navigation/56360-entering-slip-strong-crosswind.html)

pegasus1457 07-19-2009 10:45 PM

Entering the slip with a strong crosswind
 
Our town dock strongly encourages boats to tie up stern to in their slips.

I have managed to master the art of backing into my slip when winds are moderate (less than 10-12 kts), but last weekend I tried several times to back into my slip with a 20 kt cross wind. Each time I slowed to make the turn into the slip, the wind caught my bow and whipped it around, changing my heading by 90 degrees (I have a fin keel). After 3 unsuccessful tries I spent the night on our club's mooring, until the wind died down in the early morning hours. :mad:

I would be grateful for suggestions on dealing with this situation. Is it possible to back into a slip with a strong crosswind? Do I have to go in bow first when these conditions exist?

FishFinder 07-20-2009 02:44 AM

Why do they insist you dock stern in? I think you should dock whatever way is the easiest and safest. In my boat (and my understanding is most sailboats are similar) I have very little control moving slowly in reverse so I park her bow-in.

I'm still trying to understand the insistence some people have with backing into the slip ... I've seen several people in my marina this year try again and again and again to back in, failing and getting damn close to running into something when it seems to me they could just go bow-first and save a lot of trouble.

AdamLein 07-20-2009 02:53 AM

Backing in is often easier, if the slip is upwind and your bow tends to get blown downwind (often the case for me). The other nice thing about backing in, is that, as opposed to backing out, you tend to have steerageway earlier (again, on my boat: backing out is pretty nerve-wracking since I often can't steer until I'm already out of the slip, and there's not much room to turn after that).

Still, that doesn't explain why they would "strongly encourage" it. What sort of dock is it, and what town (if you don't mind my prying)? In some berths I've seen, you get pylons and are expected to use a Mediterranean moor. How do you tie up?

LarryandSusanMacDonald 07-20-2009 06:40 AM

I would suggest preparing beforehand by having lines tied to inner pilings and extended out to the outer pilings and tied loosely. That way you can pull up to your slip facing into the wind (if possible). Once the stern of the boat is in position in front of the slip, grab the line on the appropriate side and warp the boat into the slip. The wind should help swing the bow out. It helps to have crew and a couple of boat hooks handy.

This may take some practice. One thing you have to watch out for is a boat sticking out beyond the pilings in an adjacent slip.

I work in a marina and we frequently have to move boats around and into their slips. We have to tow them rather than motor them and we don't have the benefit of being able to stop quickly. We usually prepare lines so we can do whatever becomes necessary.

Faster 07-20-2009 08:02 AM

Are we talking about piled slips, or a finger float or dock? If it's a finger float/dock are you on the upwind or downwind side?

In the past we've had better luck backing in with speed from downwind (docking on the windward side of the finger) The turn tends to swing the bow upwind, of course, and then once in the slip you should have good "brakes" in fwd gear and the wind holds you on the dock. Often all you need do is quickly secure a sternline and the wind will do the rest.

If you're docking on the leeward side the same technique works but you need to get lines on in a hurry. I've seen people use a modified grapple hook to snag a bullrail or a cleat to help attach to the dock more quickly.

But you have to be a bit bold and do this with speed and good steerageway. It helps a lot if your boat backs well and predictably (which many do not)

NCC320 07-20-2009 08:37 AM

I normally back into my slip because it puts me in position to tend the lines when the boat first enters the slip when I am single handing, because the boat fits better in the slip that way, and because it's easier boarding from the pier. My boat is also a fin keel, and if in significant cross wind, the bow falls off uncontrollablely if I'm backing at low speed. So it's simple....back in when I can, but if cross winds prevent good control of boat, then dock bow first until wind subsides. Then, redock with the stern in when the wind permits this.

Additionally, I like to start the backing before I enter the fairway to the slip. This allows me to see what the cross wind is going to do to the boat, and I get good control of the boat backing before trying to enter the slip, and just drive in reverse between the pilings...you can normally hit it just right almost every time. Looks a little strange if you have a long fairway, and not all boats will do this, but it takes lots of frustration away for me. And if the cross wind is sufficient to blow off the bow uncontrollablely, you are away from other boats so there will never be risk of damage. And if bow does fall off too severely, simply turn around and make the temporary bow first landing where you have more control of the bow.

administrator 07-20-2009 08:52 AM

I had one of those rare moments this weekend when the wind was coming out of the perfect direction. For those of you who were out on the Northern Chesapeake Bay this past Saturday 7/18/09 - you know the wind was BLOWING. I had to back into a slip and spun the bow into the wind. Lo and behold the wind was hitting the bow dead center. I shut off the engine and drifted back dead-center between the pilings. A fellow walked up to me on the dock and said that I should give lessons on docking boats. I laughed and told him it was my lucky day.

bloodhunter 07-20-2009 09:41 AM

Why we back in
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FishFinder (Post 506849)
Why do they insist you dock stern in? I think you should dock whatever way is the easiest and safest. In my boat (and my understanding is most sailboats are similar) I have very little control moving slowly in reverse so I park her bow-in.

I'm still trying to understand the insistence some people have with backing into the slip ... I've seen several people in my marina this year try again and again and again to back in, failing and getting damn close to running into something when it seems to me they could just go bow-first and save a lot of trouble.

If I came in bow first I'd have a very hard time getting off my boat. Aside from moving the lifeline gates I'd have to jump except when the tide was out. Problem is that the finger pier is only about a third of my boat length.
But, to be honest, even if this weren't the case, we like being stern-to where we can sit in our cockpit and socialize with the rest of our dockmates. When you're bow-to you really are cut off from every one

:D

bacampbe 07-20-2009 10:21 AM

My situation may not be a good example, since the (or at least my) Bene31 backs very nicely with the factory prop. In fact, I dock stern-to because it is easier in my boat than bow-to. But in case it helps (I almost always have a cross-wind):

I try to already be in reverse when I make the turn into the slip. That is, rather than approaching the slip in forward, turning away from the slip and backing in, I usually make a U turn in the alley, then back towards my slip and turn in. This allows me to get some water moving over the rudder in reverse well before I get crosswise to the wind. I give it a good burst of reverse thrust to get moving backwards, then once I have rudder response, I drop it off to cut down on the prop walk.

I do this so that my approach is stern into the wind. As I said, usually this means making a U-turn with our typical prevailing wind, but if the wind is reversed it means going past the slip and then backing back.

Whether this will work for another boat depends on how well you can steer it backwards once you get it moving.

The other thing I've leaned, at least in my boat, is that when you are moving in reverse, you can stop really fast. The prop is optimized for forward thrust, and it makes a _really_ good brake when you are moving backwards. The practical effect is, you can approach a little faster in reverse than in forward and still stop safely. This gives you more water over the rudder, and therefore more control. (But please, make sure you have a good feel for how fast you can stop your own boat before backing fast towards a dock!)

pegasus1457 07-20-2009 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishFinder (Post 506849)
Why do they insist you dock stern in? I think you should dock whatever way is the easiest and safest. In my boat (and my understanding is most sailboats are similar) I have very little control moving slowly in reverse so I park her bow-in.

I'm still trying to understand the insistence some people have with backing into the slip ... I've seen several people in my marina this year try again and again and again to back in, failing and getting damn close to running into something when it seems to me they could just go bow-first and save a lot of trouble.

Guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

The dock I use is the Mt Sinai marina on Long Island, operated by Brookhaven Town. Each slip has outer pilings. Most slip holders (me included) have rigged lines from the dock to the pilings, which have spliced eyes to act as spring lines. The piling end of the lines are attached to rings which slide up and down on poles with the tides. These rings are shared by neighboring slips. There have been a number of incidents of boat damage due to the ring getting snagged on the bottom of the pole and not coming up with the rising tide. My previous boat had a winch ripped off the coaming during such an incident. The harbormaster claims that boats which dock stern to have never been damaged like this due to the bow being a foot or two higher than the stern. So, even at low tide, the ring doesn't get to drop that low. That is the basis for their "encouragement."

It is certainly easier for me and my occasional passengers to get on and off the boat from the stern. But that is another matter.

My approach starts out in the channel. I get some RPMs up in reverse. During this process the boat behaves much like a reluctant cow with the bull approaching rapidly from the rear -- the stern moves from side to side until finally I get some way and it actually begins to move backward. by the time I am in the fairway this awkward stage has passed and I have mastery of the vessel. Until I turn in a stiff cross breeze and the wind grabs the bow, and the mastery quickly disappears. With my boat this does not occur until the cross wind is approaching 20 kts.

I will try some of the remedies proposed, but the easiest is to come in bow first when the wind requires it.

Thanks again.


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