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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 12-21-2009
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Originally Posted by midlifesailor View Post
"Futility is resistant, your ass will be laminated!"
A bird in the hand is better than two bushes!
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2009
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Yam has it right. Course he read the book.

Quote from page 36

Despite the use of the term "regulations" in the title to the 1972 COLREGS Convention, each of the rules are called just that: "rules". The distinction between regulations and rules an important one. A regulation prescribes the required conduct exactly. Rules by contrast describe what i generally considered to be the proper course of conduct.

The practical effect is that a skipper does not have a simple regulation to go by but has to apply the multi-factor tests appropriate to select the rule in play. Then has to determine if circumstances require a different course of action because ultimately the there is only one rule. Don't hit anything. And one way to achieve that goal. Be a prudent seaman.

Last edited by davidpm; 12-21-2009 at 06:52 PM.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Yam has it right. Course he read the book.

Quote from page 36

Despite the use of the term "regulations" in the title to the 1972 COLREGS Convention, each of the rules are called just that: "rules". The distinction between regulations and rules an important one. A regulation prescribes the required conduct exactly. Rules by contrast describe what i generally considered to be the proper course of conduct.

The practical effect is that a skipper does not have a simple regulation to go by but has to apply the multi-factor tests appropriate to select the rule in play. Then has to determine if circumstances require a different course of action because ultimately the there is only one rule. Don't hit anything. And one way to achieve that goal. Be a prudent seaman.
Keep them coming DavidPM, this is a good learning technique and it's fun.
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  #14  
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Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Keep them coming DavidPM, this is a good learning technique and it's fun.
Ok....interesting...

do we discount the Annex for the purpose of this discussion which the CFR goes into great detail regarding the specific requirements of design?

and focus on rules 1-38.....? how do we view..rules 21 and 22 for example in this light? no pun intended..

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Old 12-21-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
Ok....interesting...

do we discount the Annex for the purpose of this discussion which the CFR goes into great detail regarding the specific requirements of design?

and focus on rules 1-38.....? how do we view..rules 21 and 22 for example in this light? no pun intended..

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I think most of the Annexes are not worth exploring but what the hell--fire away.
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Old 12-21-2009
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Oh sorry,

I'm not firing, that was more of a question....

I think I understand the point being made regarding the proper course of conduct


But the rules..are also..quite specific when it comes to "equipment"...lights, visible ranges, arcs of visibility....e.g. rules 21 and 22...

The Annex I thru V ..details in great degree the code of federal regulations defining the precise specifications for equipment used for navigation.

Annex 5 - 33 CFR 88.05 ..for instance requires a vessel over 12 meters to carry on board a copy of the inland navigation rules...

So, I guess my question was...for the purpose of this discussion...rules vs regulations....are we only talking about rules 1-38...

and we are excluding the annex...?

To me there seems to be very specific conduct required as it relates to equipment design, placement, audibility etc.....
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Old 12-21-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post

The Annex I thru V ..details in great degree the code of federal regulations defining the precise specifications for equipment used for navigation.

Annex 5 - 33 CFR 88.05 ..for instance requires a vessel over 12 meters to carry on board a copy of the inland navigation rules...

So, I guess my question was...for the purpose of this discussion...rules vs regulations....are we only talking about rules 1-38...

and we are excluding the annex...?

To me there seems to be very specific conduct required as it relates to equipment design, placement, audibility etc.....
The annexes are part of the COLREGS. Annex V is a US modification to the COLREGS.

Canadian COLREGS include Annexes 1-VI with Canadian Modifications.
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  #18  
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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The annexes are part of the COLREGS. Annex V is a US modification to the COLREGS.

Canadian COLREGS include Annexes 1-VI with Canadian Modifications.
That's what I thought too.

So, that being the case..we would include..the penalty provisions as well..

For Violations of International navigation rules and regulations
(33 U.S.C. 1608)

And Chapter 23 of Title 46.. which among other things requires a master to offer assistance at sea...failure to do so may result in fines and or imprisonment...

I'm sure Canada has similar provisions..

I guess, going back to the original topic...Rules..vs Regulations..

I see them as regulations...requiring specific actions...with penalties attached.

including rule 2....and rule 8.....which basically tell you to break the rules to avoid collision, but doesn't exonerate you if you were doing something stupid in the 1st place.....like going too fast..for example...

So does that mean I take issue with Farwell?...uh oh
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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Inland Rules of the Road, Are Law you will find them in the Code of Federal Regulations 33.
ColRegs are International law, under the treaties signed by all of the Maritime nations. And the USA and all the other nations have signed and ratified those treaties. The USA is a signatory nation of IMO.
Any Questions?

I find myself in this camp..
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2009
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Ok--here is a question.

The Colregs are primarily designed to address the three basic meeting situations and "Special Circumstances." So here is the question (it has two parts

1) What are the three basic meeting situations?

2) What is an example of a "Special Circumstance"?
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