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post #251 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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When coming near a sailboat. I take a good look at her and using WAG to determine what her intentions are. I also look to see if there is any exhaust coming from her engine. For when I'm working I do get nervious around them.
I watch the cockpit activities in the sailboat for a clue as to whether they are preparing to come about or not.
Have had sailboats under power claim their "Right of way" as a sailboat. on some the sails were up and a couple the sails were furled.
Have had sailboats cross my bow, come about and cross my bow again forcing me to back down hard on my vessel.
Have seen them with the engine running, take them out of gear and claim "sailboat rights" then after we have cleared each other kick their engine back into gear.

Now you know my mind set... If their engine is running they are a power boat.
But seeing that I value the safety of my vessel, crew & Passengers. Letting them barge ahead and my maneuvering around them is a discretion of valour and safer for my vessel and all those aboard her.

After all we should do our best to avoid any and all collisions. Even if we let some idiot barge their way by. Safety First Always.

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post #252 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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Where is the one area where a sail boat has the right of way over a fishing vessel??

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post #253 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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Jack,

Understood, and a great example.

However, at night, the sailboat on starboard tack would have running lights and a steaming light on...so, no confusion would exist. (if we were to call it a power vessel)

The confusion would come in daylight hours for vessels under 12 meters.
unless the starboard tack boat displayed a cone....since all vessels over 12 meters would be required to display a day shape.

The example is a good one though...and a strong argument for the " It's a sailing vessel " position.

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post #254 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Where is the one area where a sail boat has the right of way over a fishing vessel??
I hate to be picky but there is only one instance of right of way, and it is in the inland rules. Navigation Rules FAQ

A vessel engaged in fishing must keep clear if it is overtaking a sailboat. (Rule 13)

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Quote:
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Where is the one area where a sail boat has the right of way over a fishing vessel??
If their trolling lines or apparatus does not restrict their ability to maneuver.

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post #256 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Yam, Tempest et al

I have contacted some folks. Three different countries - all of the same opinion (no transmission = sailing vessel). Should I post in this thread or a new one?

I will start to write it up in a word processor and then post.

If it helps - the following scenario shows why there can be no grey area or ambiguity.



Vessel A on port tack (no engine) thinks he is the give-way vessel; Vessel B on starboard tack (charging batteries with engine) thinks he is give-way. If both give way, by bearing away, we have a head-on situation and the confusion grows.



Jack

Nice demonstration! Great Job!

There isn't a device on this world that can measure the indifference I have for that statement.
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post #257 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Where is the one area where a sail boat has the right of way over a fishing vessel??
In a narrow channel or fairway, the fishing vessel is to keep clear of all other vessels.
In this case, a sailing vessel is part of "all other vessels".
This is what I was striving for Rule 9 (C) both Intl & Inld

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post #258 of 463 Old 01-13-2010
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Power driven / sailing vessel

After the discussion over the past few days, I needed some form of resolution.

Last night I phoned the USCG Online Navrules Section (PHONE (703) 313-5900) (NIS). I asked about rules 3 b &c. The individual to whom I spoke told me that a sailboat without the transmission engaged is still a sailing vessel. If the engine is not for propulsion, it is still a sailing vessel.

I was given the number for Coast Guard Legal 202-372-1563. I have not contacted them; maybe someone else could and report back.

I also contacted the Nautical Institute (UK), a Canadian admirality law lawyer and a law professor at McGill. I have received replies from the first two. They are below:

Quote:
Dear Mr Dale,

I am not a maritime lawyer, but my interpretation of the Col Regs as a
Master Mariner is that for a sailing vessel to become a power driven
vessel the propeller must been engaged. Charging the batteries without
engaging the transmission would therefore not change the status of
sailing.

Best regards


Chief Executive

The Nautical Institute
202 Lambeth Road
London, SE1 7LQ
UK
Tel: +44 (0)20 7928 1351
Fax: +44 (0)20 7401 2817
Email: cpw@nautinst.org
Web: The Nautical Institute Home Page
Quote:
Jack,

I am not aware of any case that has considered this issue. My own view
is that the sailboat would not be a power driven vessel for the purpose
of the collision regulations as the propulsion power is the sails and
not the engine. The definition of "sailing vessel" actually contemplates
this scenario. That definition is " ...any vessel under sail provided
that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used". In your
scenario the vessel is under sail and the propelling machinery is not
being utilized (only the engine is used but, importantly, not the
propellers). The sailboat would therefore be a sailing vessel within the
meaning of the collision regulations. The sailboat in this scenario is
really just running a generator.

I am glad that you have found my site to be of use.

Regards,



Giaschi & Margolis
401-815 Hornby Street
Vancouver, B.C.
V6Z-2E6
Tel. 604-681-2866
Fax 604-681-4260
If I get anything else, I will post.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
If their trolling lines or apparatus does not restrict their ability to maneuver.
True. I guess we found three instances.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
You are the give way vessel is an overtaking situation.
And you must keep clear until finally past and clear. This is a rule that uses the phrase 'keep clear" rather than "give way".

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