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  #281  
Old 01-15-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbr View Post
In my reading, point 5.3 indicates it did not matter if Triptych was propelled by machinery or not. Barossa, as the overtaking vessel, was required
to keep out of the way until finally past and clear.

I agree. The overtaking rule trumps.

I was interested in the claim by Triptych that she was sailing and the claim by Barossa that Triptych was motorsailing. There was no debate about whether or not Triptych's engine was on. Triptych's skipper claimed the engine was idling in neutral, Barossa's skipper claimed to see prop wash, implying the transmission was engaged. The court expressed the opinion that she was motorsailing while the lack of an inverted cone advised other vessels she was sailing.

I cannot find any other court rulings that even hint of a decision in this matter. The admiralty lawyer I contacted is not aware of any either findings either.

Anyways, I think the theoretical cases have been decided, the courts will have to decide the real ones. I hope I am not involved in the real cases.
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  #282  
Old 01-15-2010
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Int'l & Inld:
the rules state that vessels may depart from the requirements of the Rules when ________________.

1. there are no other vessels around
2. operating in a narrow channel
3. the Master enters it in the ship's log
4. necessary to avoid immediate danger
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  #283  
Old 01-15-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Int'l & Inld:
the rules state that vessels may depart from the requirements of the Rules when ________________.

1. there are no other vessels around
2. operating in a narrow channel
3. the Master enters it in the ship's log
4. necessary to avoid immediate danger
Rule 2(b)
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  #284  
Old 01-15-2010
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Question This could be a matter for discussion

Read rule 12 carefully!

Rule 11 & 12: Application and Sailing Vessels

Which section of rule 12 (international or inland) applies?

Which vessel is stand-on? Why?

Which vessel is give way? Why?

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  #285  
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A slight change

Which section of rule 12 (international or inland) applies?

Which vessel is stand-on? Why?

Which vessel is give way? Why?

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  #286  
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Scenario 1

In.. the Picture.... as it shows Both Vessels are on Starboard tack, The windward boat...(6) should head up and pass and pass clear astern of (9)

However, if you roll the clock back...there's a possibility that (9) advanced to this position from upwind...of (6) which would have made (9) the burdened vessel....and then 9 should have given way and not crossed.....

That's my story and I'm sticking to it....;-)
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  #287  
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Scenario 2....see my second scenario...
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  #288  
Old 01-15-2010
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The vessel sailing by the lee is give way is both instances.

Here is the problem.

Do a search of ColRegs. The only reference to "boom" is log booms. Port and starboard are defined by the side overwhich the wind blows, not the boom. The mail sail or largest fore and aft sail defines windward, not port / starboard.

I asked for an interpretation of Rule 12 of one of the authors of Handbook of nautical Rues of the Road. This is the response.

Quote:
Yes, Rule 12 refers to the wind, and not the boom. The boat with
the wind coming from the starboard side has the right of way over
another sailboat with the wind coming over its port side. That
eliminates the ambiguity of the case when a sailboat is by the lee
(which tends to be a nasty circumstance is strong winds). I guess
I've just considered starboard tack to be when the wind is coming
over the starboard side of the boat, disregarding where the boom is.
The rules were originally developed when square-rigged sailing
vessels were common -- the boom is on both sides of the ship.
I think I have been teaching incorrectly.
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Last edited by jackdale; 01-15-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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  #289  
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Tempest has it correct. Read Rule 12(b) carefully. The windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried. Therefore both the vessels in both diagrams are on Starboard tack and the windward rule 12(ii) would apply.

Note that the term "burdened" was eliminated many years ago, maybe 1983 if my memory is correct.

In the early 1970's I was teaching an adult sailing class and teaching the Rules. I had defined tack as the side the wind is blowing over. Then being a young instructor I drew a diagram of a vessel on a dead run and asked the class what tack. One gentleman replied "Stern Tack"! By my definition he was correct. Since that time I have always used the definition in the ColRegs.
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  #290  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbr View Post
The windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried. Therefore both the vessels in both diagrams are on Starboard tack and the windward rule 12(ii) would apply.
Hi Bruce.

I agree about the definition of the windward side. The boat sailing sailing the lee has the wind on the port side the other vessel has the wind on the starboard side. The port /starboard rule would prevail. 12(a)i

Quote:
(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which
has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the
other,
Jack
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Last edited by jackdale; 01-15-2010 at 11:58 PM.
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