First storm in a sailboat; lessons learned, advice wanted. - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 06-24-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 117
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
farmboy is on a distinguished road
Smack,

Well said in your last post. I would add that some days the clouds can be very helpful in reading the wind. On those days when you have patchy dark clouds with defined edges and bright sunshine in between, expect major wind gusts/shifts at the edges of those clouds. I'm talking about those days on water when its 4 gusting to 15. If you don't anticipate well, your boat turns into a pendulum. I don't know if it applies in this case, but on certain days I have found watching the clouds helpful.
__________________
farmboy
Shark24 #337
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 09-04-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
DSnider748 is on a distinguished road
Feedback and Advice on turning up wind in a big gale

Wow, what a story; sounds familiar. Here is my review and advice on how to turn from down wind, to up wind in high winds.

* Absolutely get a Jib for your boat. Your boat was made to sail with two sails. When the Jib is not there, you have severely limited your ability to maintain control, especially when tacking up wind.

* Absolutely be ready to Reef the mainsail at 1st warning of impending trouble; don't wait. Start up the outboard, point the boat straight up wind; this will enable you best stability during the Reefing process.

* When caught in a storm down wind like you were, stay with the devil you know, and absolutely do not be tempted to turn the boat such that a big swell can easily roll your boat.

* Now for the big question: how to turn the sailboat around from downwind to some up wind, such that you have an extremely better chance of surviving the storm: As you know, any attempt to turn the sailboat around from downwind toward upwind in high winds, will absolutely capsize the sailboat.

Follow this technique in high winds, before the sea becomes out of control:

1.) Let the Jib out such that it effectively in out of the game
2.) Pull the mainsail in to slow the boat as much as possible. Be careful at all times to stay on a heading away from dead down wind.
3.) Begin the turn process, let the mainsail out all the way, and reduce the centerboard to 30% or less effectiveness. The boat will slide instead of capsize, at the same time, it will begin to turn the nose toward up wind. Like all maneuvers, you will need to manage the Tiller, Centerboard, Mainsail.... to get the attitude of the sailboat to just begin to point upwind.
4.) At the earliest point of being upwind, begin to fully engage the Centerboard to gain forward momentum and slow/stop the slide
5.) As the sail boat begins to reach upwind attitude, momentum is moving forward and normal control is restored, engage the Jib. If you engage the Jib too early, the slide will be very pronounced, and the bringing the nose into upwind attitude will be very difficult.
6.) General advice/warning: you will need to manage the slide, turn, heel, and engage the center board slowly (but not too slow) such that you don't bend/break the centerboard. Careful not to engage the centerboard to quickly, especially if there is a significant slide in progress. You don't want to bend/break the Centerboard. At the same time, not reducing the Centerboard enough, could result in over whelming heeling and you could capsize. If you capsize, it is a result of too much Centerboard, and turning too quickly (assuming a huge wave does not contribute to the rollover).

Bottom Line: your objective is to put the nose of the sailboat, such that sailing upwind can begin immediately.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 09-04-2011
sailguy40's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
sailguy40 is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Although this thread is old, great advice here! I will definitely remember a lot you suggest if I am ever caught in a bad weather situation.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 09-07-2011
randy capedory 25d seraph
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 87
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
rtbates is on a distinguished road
Rule #1: Have ALL your reef lines run BEFORE leaving the dock... The sail may not be reefed YET but the lines should always be in place.

You just learned the biggest issue with 'coastal cruising', the desire to seek shelter vs run for sea room when a storm approaches. You may have been on edge, BUT A CAT 22 has absolutely no business at sea in a storm. It could have been much worse..
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 09-08-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: S. Wi.
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
lat42north is on a distinguished road
Army surplus sea anchor!! I used one in the Gulf of Mexico on my Cal 21 when a storm came up too soon... best $40.00 I ever spent on ebay!!!!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 09-14-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 125
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
INMA is on a distinguished road
A good story and the lesson is your yacht is able to survive conditions better than you or the crew. I always admired the C22 as a good seaworthy yacht. Now some observations.

A downhaul on the jib halyard lead to the cockpit so you can get it down without going to the bow is valuable. In your story you would have not lost the halyard.

Sort the outboard out so you can get it working to turn into the wind to reef.

I like two reefs, a big one on a single line system to get the sail down, you can always rig the first reef after putting in the second reef and then shake the first reef out.

Slugs on the mainsail are the skippers best friend when you have a well setup single line reef.

Lazyjacks are handy with a single line reef.

You figured out never head to shallow water in a blow unless you know what your doing.

The C22 is one yacht that should hove too safely in extreme conditions, figure it out.

The sea anchor is a great device when you have open water.

Never give up.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 09-14-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 272
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
captflood is on a distinguished road
GREETINGS EARTHLINGS Babtisem by fire you did well in the break-down of the event and you have learnt many a good lesson. If I could offer you some tips it would be the seven P's Rule, Planning Practice Preperation Prevents Piss Poor Performance! if you think you need to reef it sould already be done, do not hold onto sail to long you are not raceing, do you have life jackets and harnesses on when on deck and are all lids and haches secrued so cannot fall out when in a roll (bungy cord)? where you fastened to the boat when rolling around (Jack-stays in the cockpit)? where coast-garuds awhere you where where ? Radio contact with other vessel in your area ? And didyour remember to thank your Crew ? Thanks goes a long way. GO SAFE.
(AND DO KEEP US POSTED)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 09-16-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 125
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
INMA is on a distinguished road
DSnider, you state "As you know, any attempt to turn the sailboat around from downwind toward upwind in high winds, will absolutely capsize the sailboat."

Then you suggest "reduce the centerboard to 30% or less".

A Catalina 22 has a swing keel that should remain down and stay down to provide the righting moment to right the yacht in a roll or knockdown. In addition pulling the keel up shifts the keel aft increasing lee helm almost certainly preventing the yacht getting the bow into the wind.

Perhaps you have mistaken the boat for a 22 foot catamaran.

Best way to get a monohull running out of control to pointing into the wind is with the motor going, wait for a wave to pass and turn as quickly as possible hopefully between waves, it will all happen at planing speeds and either work or not (obvious). A very effective rudder is as valuable as a well ballasted keel when all else is scaring you.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 09-18-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Three Mile Harbor, East Hampton, NY
Posts: 462
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 8
tweitz is on a distinguished road
DSnider, you state "As you know, any attempt to turn the sailboat around from downwind toward upwind in high winds, will absolutely capsize the sailboat."

That is nonsense. If you can sail upwind, you can turn upwind. Just manage the sheets as you turn. Proper sailboats are not that easy to capsize, and the rare instances where they do capsize are more often the products of waves than wind. Except in extreme conditions, far worse than those described in the OP, there is no reason at all why turning upwind should capsize the boat. While the apparent wind will increase as you move to the new tack, the boat may be in less danger than downwind, where an accidental jibe could cause major damage. Of course different boats respond differently, and one needs to consider winds and seastate as well as searoom.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 09-19-2011
johnshasteen's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 649
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
johnshasteen is on a distinguished road
Having endured two Force 10 storms at sea, here's what I've learned: be as familiar with your boat as you can; know how to fix and have stuff to fix it with for every critical function on your boat; understand that no matter what you plan for - something else will happen.
Every boat is different and will react differently in a blow. When we were screaming downwind in the second storm, one of the seasoned, Great Lakes, sailors on the voyage posed the question: I wonder how my boat (he as a Tartan 37), would handle in these seas. The answer was, fine, we would just be doing something different.
__________________
s/v Paloma, Bristol 29.9, #141
Slipped in Bahia Marina, easy access to Corpus Christi Bay and the Gulf of Mexico.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for first sailboat advice edtolman Announcements and Suggestions Box 0 07-12-2006 02:05 AM
Need help and advice, buying first time sailboat ashley_nathan Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 12-28-2004 12:57 PM
Mid -sized sailboat wanted hrmacdonald2000 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 4 11-02-2004 01:08 PM
Wanted: Crew to join Southbound cruising sailboat ambermoon Crew Wanted/Available 8 09-16-2004 07:07 AM
Sailboat Wanted Indonesia Ersmajones Crew Wanted/Available 2 02-26-2002 05:39 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:54 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.