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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 07-08-2010
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How is the helm balance? Does the boat round up in a gust, or fall off?

Thing is, with winds that light and a light displacement boat, weird things can happen. I wouldn't fight it too hard.. maybe when you get some consistent wind in the 6 to 10 knot range, you'll be able to get a better feel for how the boat behaves 'normally'.

Once you know that, you'll be more comfortable with her, and maybe understand how to nurse her through those light-air tricks.

Also, with wind speeds at or below 3 knots, a passing boat can produce more than enough wake to overpower a light day sailor. So don't discount existing wave/wake/current conditions as a factor in making her act goofy.

Bottom line, look for a good 6 to 10 knot day with calmish water, and that'll teach you a lot. If you are still hung up, there are plenty of folks making great replacement/performance rudders.
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Last edited by CapTim; 07-08-2010 at 06:18 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2010
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The symptoms sound like the centerboard wasn't down.
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  #13  
Old 07-08-2010
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I didn't swim under and look, but there was tension on the line, so I assume it was down. When I first dropped it, then line went slack at around 2/3rds its length. Eventually it was tight, so I let it out the rest of the way, eventually it pulled tight again. When I raised it, there wasn't as much resistance as I expected, but there was steady even tension the whole was back up.

I was the only boat on the lake/puddle, so there wasn't any wake/current/waves. Certainly some weird wind. The one short strong blast I had, it seemed to act better, but did not want to round up. I had to turn it and drop the main sheet both. Turning alone was not enough to set the boat back down. With it heeled over, there was not much rudder in the water.

I eventually could sail the thing, but it was just a ton of work, because the direction was so sail dependent. I heard comments about people steering with the sails because of a broken rudder. I pretty much had to do the same thing.
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Sailing a large boat on a small lake is very tacky.
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  #14  
Old 07-09-2010
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With centerboards, the tension on the raising/lowering line goes away when the board is dropped... how familiar are you with the lowering mechanism?
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  #15  
Old 07-09-2010
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I've not sailed a boat with a center board in 35 years, (Yikes am I that old??) But I did have this center board out of the boat to repair some cracks in it. It seemed reasonably loose when I reinstalled it. When I first released the line, the pulley spun on its own till around 2/3rds of the line was out. I suppose if it did not go down all the way, that would put the pivot point back farther in the boat, giving the front of the boat more leverage, which is how it acted. It does throw out an interesting possibility if the board did not go all the way down. I know it went down a good ways, because it pulled the line out on its own, but that does not mean the board was straight up and down. As I was sailing, there were times when I would have expected it to hit bottom in the shallower areas, but I never felt it hit. Something I will have to look deeper into. (pun intended)
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AFC 17' 2+2 (sold in 2012)
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Sailing a large boat on a small lake is very tacky.
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  #16  
Old 07-09-2010
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ok, can we fire this guy for inappropriate use of puns?

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Old 07-09-2010
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No, but you can just laugh at him next time he puts his boat in the water 'cause he can't sail the stupid thing.

Something else that I've noticed. I've seen a few different photos and brochers for this boat. Some have the jib fairlead car mounted inboard and some have the same mounted about 2 inches higher and about 8 inches more outward than what mine are mounted. I do not know which is the latest design, or maybe the better design. Since the problem was aggravated by having the cars forward, it makes me wonder what impact it would have with the alternate mount and why is this boat seen with 2 different locations? Seems the wider mount would give me a flatter jib, but does that mean less power, or is there too much pocket in the jib to begin with. I don't have much to go on, but the jib seems to be curved back into the boat a lot, but pulling it tighter makes the boat unsteerable, so I don't know what is right. There are no telltails on the jib. I'm not sure how I could try the other position without drilling holes in the boat.
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RL 24 NEW to me April 25th 2014
AFC 17' 2+2 (sold in 2012)
Hobie 14'
Sunfish project boat

Sailing a large boat on a small lake is very tacky.
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  #18  
Old 07-09-2010
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I also think it sounds like the centerboard was not down. Make sure it's working correctly which might mean going down under and taking a look.
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Also, you might be overthinking the jib car leads. They certainly deserve consideration, and the understanding that - generally - the lighter the wind, the further forward they usually sit. (conversely, as the wind picks up, moving them back will help tighten the foot, flatten the sail, and push the belly of the sail forward)

But the thing is, all other things being equal, you should be able to sheet that jib just about anywhere. Sure, it won't work very well, and could be downright unsafe in some situations, but it won't really cause what you are experiencing. It's a contributing factor, certainly, but there's more going on.

Check the centerboard, and also, lets do this:

What are the dimensions of your rudder? How deep does it go in the water (aka 'draft'), what's the chord (fore-aft measurment) at the waterline, what's the chord at the bottom, and what's the width of the blade? Also, when fully deployed, is it in line with the transom, or does it intersect the transom at an angle? if so, what is that angle, roughly? Is the angle forward or aft of the transom plane?

Might just be that your rudder is tiny. If so, I promise not to point and/or snicker.
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Rudder is 30" below the water line X 12". Angle is 25 degrees, meaning the bottom of the rudder is forward under the boat. I guess that means if I'm heeled over, because of the angle of the rudder, plus the heeling, really takes the rudder out of the water when I try to turn into the wind. Seems a bit backwards from what you would want. I suppose it would not be too hard to build a mount off the back of the boat to make is straight or even angled the opposite way.



I may still be inclined to play with the jib sheet. If I loop it around the grab rails along the cockpit, it should be inline with the alternate mount. One of those things it can't hurt to try.

I'm hoping to sail it on a larger lake Saturday. That may help. I'm also going to carry my Hobie main sail with me, just for grins. It will take the main from 85 to 115 square feet. The sail is more rectangular, which should move the power aft. It is also full batons. If that doesn't make it go, nothing will. Hopefully I've added enough flotation if I get in trouble.
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RL 24 NEW to me April 25th 2014
AFC 17' 2+2 (sold in 2012)
Hobie 14'
Sunfish project boat

Sailing a large boat on a small lake is very tacky.
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