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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #1  
Old 09-27-2010
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reefing

I've got two questions....
1- For those with roller furling (non reefing) how do you reef? (head sail)
2- Why is it not adviced to reef non reef furlers? If it can handel the load of full sail why not less?
Assume non furling main sail.
Any explanations would be appreciated, and sorry for the dumb questions..
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2010
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Ok, I have a Schaeffer roller furling system which has less good furling characteristics than any other system I know. The answer is that you will not be able to produce an efficient sail shape, not that you will not be able to reef. You will not be able to point as well to windward, but at points off the wind you will be able to have some sail out for balance. I do have a hank on jib that I use when I need to reef my headsail and point. Take care and joy, Aythya crew

Last edited by CaptainForce; 09-29-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 09-27-2010
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I have an old Profurl system for my 150 genoa. I find that I can reduce the head sail to 100% and still point decently. Anything less than that and my sail shape is too messed up to work well. The hardest part for me is my tell tails go into the furled part of the sail at this point, so I do not know how well my sail is trimmed when reefed. I am thinking of adding a second set further aft for this purpose.
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Last edited by nickmerc; 08-18-2011 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 09-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiVelero View Post
1- For those with roller furling (non reefing) how do you reef? (head sail)
I have strictly hank-on headsails, and sometimes it's fun to go up onto the foredeck to change sails, it has gotten less so recently. I have been pretty conservative with headsails lately; the 135% is the most commonly used as it suits a wide range of windspeeds. If I'm singlehanding or concerned about higher winds, I go down to a 110%. This is a decision made before getting underweigh, and I tend to err on the side of less sail area. If I'm really confident that we'll have very light winds, I have a lightweight 155% that will go on. It's rare nowadays that I change headsails while underweigh; certainly not more than once per voyage, and usually early on in the voyage. I only do daysails and weekend trips.

When we do have to reduce headsail area, we come up into the wind; sheet the main in hard; douse, flake, and secure the present headsail; and then hank on the new one above it.

Quote:
2- Why is it not adviced to reef non reef furlers? If it can handel the load of full sail why not less?
Maybe it can't handle the load of a full sail... maybe that's why you're reefing. But the more common explanation is that the sail gets to be too baggy when you roll it up if it does not have a special strip of material sewn into the luff that takes up the bagginess as the sail is furled.
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Old 09-27-2010
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There are very few jib furlers nowadays that aren't meant to be roller 'reefers' as well. Those that aren't are likely to be non-foil based (i.e. self contained halyard in a sleeve in the sail) in which case decent reefed shape will be impossible.

If it's not meant to be a 'furler' then probably the torque on a furled sail will be too much for the extrusions, the drum connections or some other weakness in the design. "Reefing" then becomes a sail change just as if you were using hanked or luff tape sails and no furler.
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Old 09-27-2010
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I sail on a Beneteau sport boat (First 7.5) with hanked-on, roller-furl jib. If I try to half-furl it in an increasing breeze in hopes of getting a "reef", the bottom will roll up while the top rolls much less. Result is furled bottom half of jib, with top half mostly still unrolled, flailing in the wind and shaking the rig--not nice and not manageable.

The solution is old-school. Drop the jib and either raise a smaller one, or sail with just the reefed main.
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Old 09-27-2010
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You can also install reef points in your jib, and reef it more or less like the mainsail. I guess you'd either need to keep two sets of sheets tied to it, or go up to the bow and retie them.
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Old 09-28-2010
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One problem with roller reefing a headsail is that on most headsail roller furling systems, the sail has pretty lousy shape after you've reefed about 30-40% of the sail. Once you've reached that point, the sail starts to lose its flat shape and generally, when you're reefing the sails, is when you least want the sail to have a baggy shape.

One reason you don't want to reef a sail on a strictly roller furling system is that the system usually isn't designed to handle the loads that are generated when the system is reefed. In many cases, this is because the headsail furling system doesn't use a rigid foil—being a wire-luff or rope luff system. The Schaefer 650 system is one like this, and I use one for my screacher. However, I can not reef the screacher using it, and wouldn't want to.

If you have a roller furling, but not a roller reefing, system, then the only way to reef the sail is to drop it and use a smaller sail or to lower it and use reefing points as described above. However, adding reefing points to a roller furling headsail is generally not a good idea, since the portion of the sail that is being reefed won't be attached to the boat in any way and is very likely to flog itself to pieces. A hanked-on headsail will still have the luff attached to the headstay by the hanks, unlike the wire luff of a roller furled headsail.
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Old 09-28-2010
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Thank you all for your responses.
I guess I will continue to run with main only when wind pipes up. But I still don't understand where the loads are greater when reefed. I would think less sail less force, no?

Along the same thought here, I read some where that hanging a hammock between mast and fore stay does damage to the rigging ?
And what about those storm sails that wrap around your furled sail ?

OK, so I'm a little slow....
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Old 09-28-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiVelero View Post
Thank you all for your responses.
I guess I will continue to run with main only when wind pipes up. But I still don't understand where the loads are greater when reefed. I would think less sail less force, no?.
When the sail is fully deployed there's no load on the furling gear.. ie your furling line is eased and the sail loads are entirely on the tack, clew and forestay attachment(s)... when it's partially furled then the furling line is taut and it, along with all the rest of the 'furler' is resisting the tendency to be unrolled by the forces on the sail. That's where the loading comes in. A furler that is designed to be simply a furler may not be strong enough to withstand those forces (which can be considerable.. remember when you forgot to hold the furling line and the sail pulled out suddenly on its own??)

Also, it's likely your sail is not designed to be 'furled' this way and you'll end up loading your new clew and tack in a way the sail won't like either....

I don't see what boat you have, but most masthead 34 footers aren't going to like sailing mainsail only (esp to weather) so you'd do well to get a smaller headsail for those days.
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Last edited by Faster; 09-28-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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