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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 10-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Woah, woah, woah. WTH?

With just a main up (I assume full canvass since he mentioned going straight to the heave to instead of reefing) - and the tiller only 20 degrees to leeward, aren't you going to round up at the first big gust?

What am I missing here?
It wouldn't be full mainsail. It would be a mainsail reefed down for the wind conditions. In sea-states where you're worried about creating a slick, you'd typically be fully reefed or flying a trysail.
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
It wouldn't be full mainsail. It would be a mainsail reefed down for the wind conditions. In sea-states where you're worried about creating a slick, you'd typically be fully reefed or flying a trysail.
That makes sense. Thanks.

Still, it seems strange that you'd heave to with main only as that seems to put the majority of the pressure at the stern of the boat - leading to more weather helm potential.

I'll have to try it.
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2010
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It all depends on the boat design. For our boat, I first tried just tacking and leaving the jib as is (partially furled for the 25-30 knots we were in). The boat immediately fell off downwind and gybed. Next attempt was with about half as much jib, with the same result. Finally, tried jib fully furled and it worked fine--once headway was lost and keel stalled, boat would round up to 20 degrees from the wind and stay there.

You need to try the experiment with your own boat.
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  #14  
Old 10-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Still, it seems strange that you'd heave to with main only as that seems to put the majority of the pressure at the stern of the boat - leading to more weather helm potential.
When reefing to with reefed mainsail alone you have to adjust the mainsheet and tiller until the keel and sails stall before the boat can tack.

My experience is that the boat oscillates back and forth within a narrow angle. When it falls off the wind it starts to sail a bit, and weather helm immediately causes it to point a few degrees higher. This begins to stall the sail and keel, and it falls off again, and repeats.

With some boats in really strong winds you also need a parachute drogue or else the boat will pick up too much speed during the offwind part of the oscillation, and sail out of the turbulence slick.

My Catalina 22 will fore-reach at 2-3 knots in a 30 knot wind hove-to with a single reefed mainsail, so I probably need a deeper reef and/or a drogue. With a jib up it falls off and gybes, just like Don's boat. Still, being hove to at 3 knots is a lot nicer than running before the wind at 7 knots, with a 5.9 knot hull speed.

Last edited by casioqv; 10-04-2010 at 01:58 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-05-2010
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I think that it is important to separate a few items in the Pardeys take on heaving to in storm conditions.

1. They recommend the use of a parachute anchor to dramatically reduce fore-reaching. There is nothing much wrong with fore-reaching except that you sail out of the slick you are trying to create. This matters if the weather is really narsty. We hove-to off Bermuda last year in benign conditions to wait for first light before entering (I would have gone in at night except the engine had quit and I was afraid of no wind in the cut). We were fore-reaching with lots of sail up at probably 2.5 knots in the general direction of Africa but it was very comfortable. After the right number of hours we headed back to the island - everyone but the person on watch had a good sleep.

1b) Also, for their technique you have the parachute rigged with two heavy duty rodes, one off the bow and a second on a bight of the first taken to a mid-deck chock and jib winch. The idea is to have the anchor at an angle to the bow. The specific angle depends on the boat and conditions but something like 30* as a start. This angle can be changed by tightening or loosening the mid-deck line.

2. The second point is what sails to have up when you heave-to. They like having the main up only (or perhaps storm trysail in really snotty conditions). Other people prefer to have some jib or staysail up. Depends on the boat in particular and less importantly the conditions.

3. Position of the helm - again this varies depending on the boat and conditions

What is critical is experimenting to see what works on a particular boat. Also, what worked well the last time you hove-to may need to be modified for a new situation.
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  #16  
Old 10-05-2010
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Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Of course, the particular combination of sails and helm position will really depend on the specific boat and wind/wave conditions. What works well for one boat, may not work at all on another. What works well in 30 knots of wind may not work in 40 knots.
You got that right.
Hove-to on a full-keel crab crusher with only a reefed main up is a good way to do this; but, on a deep fin its going to be 'squirrely'.
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2010
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Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
1. They recommend the use of a parachute anchor to dramatically reduce fore-reaching.
My impression of the Pardey technique of being hove-to a parachute is that it keeps the boat from drifting OUT or DOWN FROM the 'turbulence slick'; keeps the boat WITHIN the turbulence slick. Therefore NOT to prevent forereaching.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2010
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This has turned into a great thread, learning some things, mostly is to try different things with my boat in different conditions.

Last edited by T37Chef; 10-05-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-05-2010
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Let me see if I've got this right...
If I drop my headsail.
Tie my tiller off.
I can create a "slick" on the surface of the water upwind from my boat?
If anything, I think the actor/narrator made a mistake and intended to illustrate the "slick" downwind and in the lee of the mainail.
Just my thought
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  #20  
Old 10-05-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimnfit View Post
Let me see if I've got this right...

I can create a "slick" on the surface of the water upwind from my boat?
If anything, I think the actor/narrator made a mistake and intended to illustrate the "slick" downwind and in the lee of the mainail.
Just my thought
Nope the narrator is correct the turbulence slick is upwind (as the boat s-l-o-w-l-y drifts 'downwind' due to the pressure on the sail(s)). The slick is between the boat and the oncoming (breaking) waves, and causing them to break 'before' they get to the boat.
If the slick was in the lee of the main, the waves would break 'after' hitting the boat !!! ;-)
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