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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #1  
Old 05-01-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

Hello, Folks,

I''ve been looking for a cruising boat for a long time and I find it hard to compare boats because of the extras that each may have. For example, I may see one with a radar, a steering vane and a dinghy and say to myself, Hey, now I don''t have to buy them new!

But the truth is, I really don''t know how much these things cost to buy or to install and I don''t know if I''m really saving any money.

So my question is: How much might I expect to spend for a reasonably good specimen, and for installation, of any of the following (and what make & model would you recommend)?:
radar,
self-steering vane,
GPS with chart plotter,
water purifier,
manual bilge pump,
furling gear,
generator,
diesel or propane stove/oven,
refrigerator or freezer or ice box,
survival suits,
(and there are probaby other things I forgot).

I''m sure they add up to pretty penny. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chas
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Old 05-01-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

I''ve been looking at a lot of boats lately. What I do is sit down with one of the boating supply catalogs and start pricing it out. That gives you the cost of the hardware. If it needs to be installed by a professional, then you can figure an estimate for that or just think about the time it would take you and what your time is worth.

Sometimes a boat has a lot of gear but it is old or worn out, in which case it might even be better to get a lightly equipped model for less money and equip it the way you want. Everyone has their preferences, and what I like and want may not be what you want.

Gerhard
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Old 05-26-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

"..., I may see one with a radar, a steering vane and a dinghy and say to myself, .."

The key issue is to divide such hardware in "high tech", and "huge piece of iron hardware".

Radars, GPS, chartplotters , even Radios and fridges might be considered high tech. These pieces get older very quickly. A Furuno ,10'' chartploter dated 1991, worths nothing. New fridges can be much more energy efficient than 5 yr old ones. And so on. So you should study and update yourself on all and every piece of gear. Is no only a matter of money value, but of how update that equipment is.

On other gear as winvanes, furling gear, generator, diesel or propane stove/oven, probably the tech edge is not so far. (Technology to cook scrambled eggs did not change too much in the last 500 years, even you can get a teflon pan today.)

A portion of the satisfaction that a lot of boatowners get from their boat (Included myself), is indeed visiting hardware stores and shopping around for gear

Should you buy a totally equipped boat, you will lose of one of such pleasures. (If that is your case)Worse if the equipment of the new boat is outdated, you will be prevented to buy a new chartplotter, since you already own one.

HAppy shopping

Fernando
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Old 06-14-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

The question has two parts - the first is do you need the item in question?
Self steering - going off shore?
Radar - Night sailing or Maine?
Watermakers - frequent long showers a necessity?
etc
And some things have added baggage in terms of electrical consumption. Radar, Watermakers, and refrigeration are big this way. And then there is the additional maintenance.
The other is how soon will it need be replaced? Nothing lasts forever especially on a boat.
I think there is no equation in terms of buying a boat it ends up with what are you willing to pay for it and what is the seller willing to accept. But a general rule is that old gear is not worth what the provious owner hopes and if essential will cost a bunch if not included.
Good luck.
Todd V
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Old 06-16-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

Much of the benefit of installed equipment is in the installation, not the equipment. For instance, if you have a desire for a gen set, and you buy a boat with one, the gen set may be worn out, poorly maintained, etc. But the water intake, exhaust, control panel installation, etc, are in place. Refrig--finding a place for the condenser is often hard, wiring run, etc. A new ABSCM condensor is not that bad in $$, but installing it can be a pain.
Most electronics are worth very little--they depreciate quickly, and after 2 years, there is always something better, cheaper, on the market. I installed a differential GPS just in time for the SA to be turned off and it became unnecessary. Etc.
Hard equipment has a greater life. Spinnaker poles are expensive and last a long time. Wind vanes can last. Furling needs to be checked, but again a pain to install.
Best to buy the boat because of what it is, not because of the gear it has on it.

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Old 07-17-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

Thanks, guys.
What about radar? Does it get out-dated quickly like a plotter? Or does it have a short lifespan?

Chas
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Old 07-17-2003
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What Do The Extras Cost?

Radar is interesting. Assuming you have a good installation and it works OK, it should continue to work for quite a while. On my boat, it had radar installed. The old Raytheon 20X (crt unit, later model was the 20XX, etc). About 10 years old, my guess. It worked OK. But the next lightning storm, and the unit went out, and it was not worth it to fix. So I got a deal from Raytheon (now Raymarine) for a new unit "exchange"--really they just cut me a break in price since I was a returning customer, there was nothing they were going to do with my old burned out radar unit.
The new radars are much better than the old ones. I have both a CRT and LCD (color) display. The CRT is very nice, better resolution and easy to use.
So, again, you pays your money and takes your choice. Installation on the radar is a pain--but having already had a radar installed was not that great a benefit to me. The new unit''s antenna mount was different, the cables were different, power cord was different, and display mount was different--so not much of the previous installation was of any value.

In the last 5 years, I have replaced almost all of the electronics and much of the electrical equipment on the boat--but some of that was normal maintenance/obsolesence, some was poor installation in the first place, some was lightning damage, some was me being fussy and wanting the latest of everything.
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Old 03-28-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flicker
radar,
self-steering vane,
GPS with chart plotter,
water purifier,
manual bilge pump,
furling gear,
generator,
diesel or propane stove/oven,
refrigerator or freezer or ice box,
survival suits,

Much of this really depends on what kind of sailing you intend to be doing.

Self-steering vanes are great for long bluewater passages, but not so useful for other places, where the winds may be more variable, or the courses require tacking more often.

Radar is also another item that may not be necessary. It also requires quite a bit of power to operate and a fair amount of practice to interpret properly.

GPS Chart plotters are pretty nice, regardless of what you're doing, but if you're going to go off shore, a sextant and nautical almanac are a good idea as well, as electronics are vulnerable to multiple types of failure. Paper charts and good navigation practices are also highly recommended.

Water Purifiers aren't all that useful, but Reverse Osmosis Watermakers are very useful. Most require a fairly expensive installation, and a fair amount of electricity to run. I prefer to get a simpler, non-electric model, like the Waterlog 100.

Manual Bilge Pumps are always a good idea. So are having a few sturdy buckets...as there is little as good as a scared sailor with a bucket for bailing.

Modern headsail roller furling gear is quite good now... and i highly recommend it to make sailing both safer and more convenient. The mainsail furling gear isn't quite ready for prime time IMHO.

Generators are over-rated, noisy, and can be a pain to maintain. Alternate forms of power generation are probably a good idea. I am using solar panels, as they're quiet and reliable. Wind generators and water generators are also good options, and less maintenance and noise than a generator.

Stove/Refrigerator/Cooler are nice conveniences. Much depends on how you are going to use the boat.

Survival Suits-A really good idea if you're sailing in cold water areas or cooler weather. IMHO, they are a necessity, as hypothermia is a killer.

If you want any more advice, drop me a note.
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Old 04-07-2006
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self-steering vane, Used are hard to find $2000-$3500
GPS with chart plotter, Garmin $375-$4000
water purifier, Most are Junk $1200-$2000
manual bilge pump, buy the best $250-?
furling gear, Shafer, Harken, "Caching" sound of the riggers cash drawer.
generator,Northern Lights quiet long life little service $4000-7000
diesel or propane stove/oven, Propane for cooking $1500-$2000
refrigerator or freezer or ice box, New Technology is less energy use do your homework here $1200-2500 $$$$$$
survival suits, If your sailing where its cold and you don't have a life raft maybe but big bucks Henderson Gumby Suit $900-$1200 X members of crew or you watch them die while you float around waiting to get rescued or eaten by sharks. Or you buy a nice life pod and hopefully every one goes home.

Order a Lewis Marine catalog for 2006 I think they have a $8.00 price tag but great reference because every part is listed with picture and usually the description of each item,great for measurements that seem to often be missing with other catalogs. worth the money for the impeller guide and head rebuild kit info. Go for it
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Old 04-09-2006
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value of extras on used boats

One of the advantages of buying a well-maintained used boat over a new one is the amount of gear that is "included". It seems to me that the market doesn't usually allow the price of the boat to really reflect the general price of the boat for its type PLUS original value of the equipment installed.

While shopping ourselves a couple of years ago we came across a seller who had recently repowered and seemed to be trying to recoup the entire cost of the engine/gear - the boat sat on the market overpriced for some time.

Look for quality installation and quality gear. Electronics nowadays are nearly "disposable" and have little value after just a couple of years, as previously noted.

After sailing for 20 years or so without autohelm, refrig, stove w/oven we do appreciate having these now. But at the same time we did do 20 years without these goodies and had a good time doing it.

Go for the boat you like; if you have the option of considering differently-equipped models of the same boat then the price vs gear debate makes more sense.
Buy the better boat and add the gear you think you need.

Ron
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