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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 12-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfurlong View Post
have you tried increasing tension on the back-stay to reduce weather helm? I've not sailed the Newport, but my similar vintage Hunter 30 responds well to this adjustment.
Wouldn't increasing backstay tension increase the rake of the mast aft? I always thought that aft rake increases weather helm and forward rake decreases. Am I backwards?
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesper View Post
I notice you never mention the traveler. Do you use it? Dropping it to leeward should reduce your weather helm.
I never mention it because I hate it. It's only got a 2:1 leverage on it, so once you drop it there's no bringing it back until you're on the other tack. It's kind of a last-ditch effort, though if I get decent hardware on it and get it upu to at least 4:1 I'd use it earlier.
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2010
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Once you dro the traveler, there's no reason to want to bring it back up unless the wind dies down. In that case, 2:1 is plenty. That's all I have and I use mine a lot.
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Old 12-22-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaschrumpf View Post
Wouldn't increasing backstay tension increase the rake of the mast aft? I always thought that aft rake increases weather helm and forward rake decreases. Am I backwards?
Hardening the backstay on a fractional rig flattens the mainsail, depowering the top portion of the sail. Hardening the outhaul flattens the lower portion of the sail. On a masthead rig the mast can be bent using a babystay or midstay.

Neither of these adjustments will effect the mast rake substantially. Mast rake is usually accomplished at the dock.
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Old 12-22-2010
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Wrong Sail De-Powered?

Someone else please correct me if I am wrong, but I think your weather helm continued because you depowered the wrong sail first.

I believe that Newports are mast head rigs and typically the jib is the driving sail on mast head rigs. So you should have depowered the jib first.

Also, I would second what sailingdog said regarding trying to depower in other ways before reefing. Flatten both sails before going to smaller sail area.
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Old 12-22-2010
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[QUOTE=JKCatalina310;679727]Someone else please correct me if I am wrong, but I think your weather helm continued because you depowered the wrong sail first.

I believe that Newports are mast head rigs and typically the jib is the driving sail on mast head rigs. So you should have depowered the jib first.

QUOTE]

I can't speak to the Newport specifically, but my S2 is a masthead rig and the opposite is true. I have to reef the main as soon as windspeed hits 10 kts, but I can comfortably carry a large genoa at that speed. I hear that's pretty typical for S2s, so there's more to it than masthead vs fractional.
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Old 12-23-2010
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More complete post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesper View Post
I can't speak to the Newport specifically, but my S2 is a masthead rig and the opposite is true. I have to reef the main as soon as wind speed hits 10 kts, but I can comfortably carry a large genoa at that speed. I hear that's pretty typical for S2s, so there's more to it than masthead vs fractional.
I admittedly posted in haste yesterday because I was at work and didn't have time to give a more complete post. In doing so I assumed he did everything else prior to reefing that should be tried (IMHO) prior to reefing. I will go into more details below.

Disclosure: I am by no means an expert. I have never taken a sailing class (other then at boy scout camp as a kid). What I am saying is just what I have learned through experience and experimentation and what I have read. So again, please correct me if anything I say is wrong or confusing.

When reaching through sailing close hauled, weather helm is typically caused by the power point on your rigging being too far aft. Lee helm is caused by the power point being too far forward (any of us that go out for the lazy evening sail and just roll out the head sail have seen this). Typically the power is too far aft because most of us have a tendency to over sheet our sails.

So when I have weather helm, or excessive heal, the first step I take is checking my sail trim. I start with the head sail and trim until all tell tales are flying correctly. I follow the three rules of head sail trimming for that. Then I let out the main sheet until it starts to get back winded. The traveler is typically over the center of the boat if you have one. My C&C did not but many of my friends' boats do that I sail on frequently. My main halyard, out haul and Cunningham are typically a little loose at this point.

If I still have excessive weather helm (because you do want a small amount of weather helm) or the boat is healing too much, then I flatten out the main by hauling the main halyard, out haul and Cunningham tight. This depowers the main sail by reducing the sail pocket. If you have a back stay adjuster, you can also tighten this to flatten the sails and depower.

If I still have excessive weather helm or heal, I try moving the traveler to leeward and let out sheet until the sail is back winded to the maximum extent possible. This depowers the main by changing the shape of the sail pocket and "spilling" wind.

Now the sails have been trimmed to the best extent possible. If the weather helm continues, now I will start to think about reefing.

On our C&C, before we added the roller furler, we typically used our 100 jib. We also had a storm jib and 150 genny. We never carried the genny and only had the storm jib when heavy winds (over 18-20 kts) were predicted. So our only option was to reef the main typically. I also did not like changing a hank on sail in the conditions that were typical when it came time to reduce sail.

But when we went to the roller furler, we had the 150 genny cut down to fit on the furler, so it was around 135 to 140 genny. With this set up I found that the full genny was typically causing the back wind on the main earlier then it should be happening without the influence from the genny. So I would furl in the head sail to approximately 75-80% of the head sail area. Now I would retrim the mainsail with the sheet and traveler. This typically would cure the weather helm and excessive heal.

If I had to furl the head sail in to less then 40% of the head sail area, then I would think it is time to reef the main.

I am hoping this same approach will work on my new boat, Catalina 310. But I won't know until the spring.

I hope this clears up what I mean by my previous post.
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  #18  
Old 12-24-2010
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Well that helped me JK
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