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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 02-01-2011
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If a big (half your boat length or higher), steep, breaking wave hits you broadside or from the quarter, it really could care less whether the water next to your boat is slick or rough.
Possibly the sea anchor the Pardy's use would keep the boat in position relative to the waves. The slick produced would keep most waves from breaking through your windward portlights.
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  #22  
Old 02-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Quote:
If a big (half your boat length or higher), steep, breaking wave hits you broadside or from the quarter, it really could care less whether the water next to your boat is slick or rough.
Possibly the sea anchor the Pardy's use would keep the boat in position relative to the waves. The slick produced would keep most waves from breaking through your windward portlights.
IIRC, the Pardeys admit the possibility that a wave could come from an unexpected direction and break on them, and that that would be bad. I think the idea is that most breaking waves that are dangerous will be approaching from windward.
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  #23  
Old 02-01-2011
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IIRC, the Pardeys admit the possibility that a wave could come from an unexpected direction and break on them, and that that would be bad. I think the idea is that most breaking waves that are dangerous will be approaching from windward.
The idea that a breaking wave is going to be coming from a significantly different direction is a crock of sH!T. From what I've read, a lot of study has been done on this and it just doesn't happen. Don Jordan mentions this in some of his writings, and that's one reason the JSD works as well as it does, since it helps protects the boat from breaking wave strikes.
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2011
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Except when the rudder breaks...but I digress....

As for multi-directional waves, isn't that what a confused sea is? Waves either stirred up in multiple directions by rotation due to a TD or hurricane, or waves bouncing off landmasses, etc.? Seems plausible to me in a crazy storm situation.

Along those lines, I'm still interested to hear the rest of the story on Nereida's capsize off Cape Horn. A JSD was in the mix - but it's not clear how and when.
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  #25  
Old 02-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
The idea that a breaking wave is going to be coming from a significantly different direction is a crock of sH!T. From what I've read, a lot of study has been done on this and it just doesn't happen. Don Jordan mentions this in some of his writings, and that's one reason the JSD works as well as it does, since it helps protects the boat from breaking wave strikes.
I've read Jordon's assertions that this doesn't happen, but I've wondered if that only takes into account straight-forward scenarios where a single storm progresses through an area in a fairly uniform direction. How about cases where storms have made sharp directional changes (some have even back-tracked on their own path) or where multiple storms have passed through an area from different directions in a short span of time, causing dangerously confused seas? Concerning sailing south of the equator, I've also read of cases of very large swells travelling up from the southern ocean and interacting with storm-tossed seas from a different direction to make them even more dangerous.

It's clear that Jordon did a lot to further the science on this issue and the series drogue has proven itself to be a very valuable device for storm management. Still, I'm a little skeptical about placing complete faith in any one engineer's theories, test results, and solutions. We could use a lot more of his systematic, thoughtful, and engineering-discipline based approach.
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  #26  
Old 02-01-2011
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IMHO, you might get standing waves in this type of scenario, but not massive breaking waves coming in from multiple directions.

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I've read Jordon's assertions that this doesn't happen, but I've wondered if that only takes into account straight-forward scenarios where a single storm progresses through an area in a fairly uniform direction. How about cases where storms have made sharp directional changes (some have even back-tracked on their own path) or where multiple storms have passed through an area from different directions in a short span of time, causing dangerously confused seas? Concerning sailing south of the equator, I've also read of cases of very large swells travelling up from the southern ocean and interacting with storm-tossed seas from a different direction to make them even more dangerous.

It's clear that Jordon did a lot to further the science on this issue and the series drogue has proven itself to be a very valuable device for storm management. Still, I'm a little skeptical about placing complete faith in any one engineer's theories, test results, and solutions. We could use a lot more of his systematic, thoughtful, and engineering-discipline based approach.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #27  
Old 02-01-2011
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Still, I'm a little skeptical about placing complete faith in any one engineer's theories, test results, and solutions. We could use a lot more of his systematic, thoughtful, and engineering-discipline based approach.
+1.

Especially when conclusions like this come out of the exhaustive resarch (from the JSD website):

Quote:
Conventional storm survival lore and literature is no longer necessary or pertinent.

With the help of the drogue; St Paul on his biblical voyage across the Great Sea could have safely made passage to Rome instead of being shipwrecked in the wilderness, and the spread of Christianity would have taken a different course. The settlement of the American continents might have been advanced by 400 years if the Vikings had the drogue. Their vessels, although ideal for fast coastwise voyaging, were hopelessly unsafe on the open sea under storm conditions. Since they were undecked, they could not lie ahull without swamping, and if they tried to run off they would surf and plunge into the next wave. The Viking ships had no structural bulkheads and would have split open like a pea pod on impact with the green water in the preceding trough.

With the help of the drogue, the Vikings might have been able to support their colonies in the New World.

So much for conjecture!
St. Paul could have been the first Evangelical-Viking-American if only he'd had the JSD! Heh-heh.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 02-01-2011 at 09:03 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2011
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I doubt many breaking waves get by the hurricane barrier in SD'S neighbourhood.
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2011
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I doubt many breaking waves get by the hurricane barrier in SD'S neighbourhood.
Something I'm grateful for every time there's a named storm.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #30  
Old 02-02-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
+1.

Especially when conclusions like this come out of the exhaustive resarch (from the JSD website):



St. Paul could have been the first Evangelical-Viking-American if only he'd had the JSD! Heh-heh.
Reckon the vikings would have had some intresting comments when they arrived and found St Brendan the voyager waiting for them.
Blessed voyageing.
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