Collision(In-Land Rules of the Road) - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 01-21-2011
Boasun's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,064
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Boasun will become famous soon enough Boasun will become famous soon enough
Actually I would hold the Owner/Captain at fault. He neglected his responsibilities as the captain by putting an inexperience person on the helm.
Then gave the order not to bother him(?)
This would be total neglect on part of the Owner/Captain. Or could it be that he didn't know what to do either? Ignorance can kill you out on open waters or In Restricted Navable waters...
__________________
1600 Ton Master, 2nd Mate Unlimited Tonnage

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Maritime Instructor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Rapture
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 01-22-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 862
Thanks: 1
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 9
aa3jy is on a distinguished road
Here is what the new crew member was cited for:

Rule 5
> Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
> hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
> circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation
> and of the risk of collision.
>
> 327.33 Reckless or careless operation of vessel.—
> (1) It is unlawful to operate a vessel in a reckless manner. A person is
> guilty of reckless operation of a vessel who operates any vessel, or
> manipulates any water skis, aquaplane, or similar device, in willful or
> wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property at a speed or in a
> manner as to endanger, or likely to endanger, life or limb, or damage the
> property of, or injure any person. Reckless operation of a vessel includes,
> but is not limited to, a violation of s. 327.331(6). Any person who violates
> a provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the first degree,
> punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
> (2) Any person operating a vessel upon the waters of this state shall
> operate the vessel in a reasonable and prudent manner, having regard for
> other waterborne traffic, posted speed and wake restrictions, and all other
> attendant circumstances so as not to endanger the life, limb, or property of
> any person. The failure to operate a vessel in a manner described in this
> subsection constitutes careless operation. However, vessel wake and
> shoreline wash resulting from the reasonable and prudent operation of a
> vessel shall, absent negligence, not constitute damage or endangerment to
> property. Any person who violates the provisions of this subsection commits
> a noncriminal violation as defined in s. 775.08.
> (3) Each person operating a vessel upon the waters of this state shall
> comply with the navigation rules.
> (a) A person whose violation of the navigation rules results in a boating
> accident, but whose violation did not constitute reckless operation of a
> vessel, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as
> provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
> (b) A person whose violation of the navigation rules does not result in a
> boating accident and does not constitute reckless operation of a vessel is
> guilty of a noncriminal violation as defined in s. 775.08.
> (c) Law enforcement vessels may deviate from the navigational rules when
> such diversion is necessary to the performance of their duties and when such
> deviation may be safely accomplished.
> (4) Unless otherwise provided in this chapter, the ascertainment of fault
> in vessel operations and boating accidents shall be determined according to
> the navigation rules.
> History.—s. 1, ch. 59-400; s. 3, ch. 63-105; s. 1, ch. 65-361; s. 6, ch.
> 81-100; s. 6, ch. 84-188; s. 6, ch. 86-35; s. 2, ch. 88-133; s. 2, ch.
> 89-136; s. 45, ch. 91-224; s. 1, ch. 92-92; s. 6, ch. 2000-362.
> Note.—Former s. 371.50.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 01-22-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,930
Thanks: 4
Thanked 34 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Tempest is on a distinguished road
The Captain is ultimately responsible for the safety of the vessel and the crew.

However, many states now require an operators license or boating safety certificate. Was this state one that required such a certificate? Was the crew member in compliance?

In either case, The captain was negligent, and the crew member failed to use good judgment, ( self preservation was a great way to put it).
__________________
Tempest
Sabre 34
Morgan, NJ
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 01-23-2011
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,533
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
This is beginning to sound interesting. There are lots of questions. Did the owner receive a similar citation? The law holds the person operating the vessel as liable. Who is the operator here? Is it the owner/skppper or the crew at the helm who is the actual operator, according to the law where this happened? To put it into "landspeak", what if the driver of a car going towards a tollbooth at 55 mph told his front-seat passenger to "Take the wheel while I tie my shoe."? Whose fault would that accident be?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 01-23-2011
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,604
Thanks: 2
Thanked 87 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
"If a relatively new crew member of sailboat"
Was this hired crew, or did you mean a guest?

When all is said and done, I'm guessing the helmsman cold and did have the option to say "I CAN'T HANDLE THAT" and REFUSE TO TAKE THE HELM. And certainly to shout "Help! Captain! Help! Crash!".

But apparently the guest allowed himself to be intimidated, and he WAS AT THE HELM when he hit the bridge. Ayeah, that would seem to make him responsible for hitting it. No one was holding a knife to his throat, forcing him to hold that course, were they?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 01-23-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
According to the OP...the crew member did shout for help and was IGNORED...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"If a relatively new crew member of sailboat"
Was this hired crew, or did you mean a guest?

When all is said and done, I'm guessing the helmsman cold and did have the option to say "I CAN'T HANDLE THAT" and REFUSE TO TAKE THE HELM. And certainly to shout "Help! Captain! Help! Crash!".

But apparently the guest allowed himself to be intimidated, and he WAS AT THE HELM when he hit the bridge. Ayeah, that would seem to make him responsible for hitting it. No one was holding a knife to his throat, forcing him to hold that course, were they?
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 01-24-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
UncleRuckus is on a distinguished road
According to the rules there must be a proper watch at all times, and the helmsman cannot be the lookout.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 01-24-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRuckus View Post
According to the rules there must be a proper watch at all times, and the helmsman cannot be the lookout.
I can't imagine that many recreational boats do this. Most are lucky to have the helmsman keeping a watch of some sort.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 01-24-2011
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 110
Thanked 59 Times in 58 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Charging someone with a crime, and finding them guilty are two different things.

The cop can cite anyone for ANYTHING. However, the burden of proof should fall to the cop.

For example, a couple of years ago, my wife was cited - delivered via USPS - for operating without an inspection sticker. The vehicle that she was supposedly operating was my son's car. This car has a manual transmission, that she does not know how to drive! Furthermore, she was out of state on the date that the citation was written. I told her to fight it, but she decided it was easier to pay the citation.

It seems that the person at the helm has a story to tell, and should be given the opportunity to tell it. Depending upon what is at stake here (damage to the boat, bridge damage?), I suggest that the helmsman prepare to defend himself, and get a lawyer.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 01-24-2011
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,860
Thanks: 26
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleRuckus View Post
According to the rules there must be a proper watch at all times, and the helmsman cannot be the lookout.
Can you provide a citation for this?
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rules of the Road Question jkimberly General Discussion (sailing related) 48 02-11-2011 01:14 PM
Rules of the Road John Rousmaniere Learning to Sail Articles 0 12-28-2003 07:00 PM
Rules of the Road John Rousmaniere Seamanship Articles 0 12-28-2003 07:00 PM
Rules of the Road John Rousmaniere Her Sailnet Articles 0 12-28-2003 07:00 PM
Rules of the Road Sue & Larry Learning to Sail Articles 0 11-12-2001 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:04 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.