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Dangers of LED navigation lights

74K views 70 replies 35 participants last post by  TakeFive 
#1 ·
I just wrote this in response to another thread but it struck me as so important I thought a new thread was called for.

I was having a beer with my friend who skippers about 50,000 tons of bulk carrier and he made a very interesting observation. Twice they have had to sheer off hard - not easy for a boat that size - because the color of "white" LED mast head & steaming lights is almost exactly the same as a star. He explained, those lights tend to be weak and look exactly like stars from a few miles away. They are so small you do not notice them getting closer on a moonless night until you are right on top of them. This from a very experienced and careful professional seaman who also owns a lovely sail boat. He uses loads of LED's on the boat but not for his navigation lights. Next time in a dark anchorage look at the other boats mast head lights and you will see what he's talking about right away. Meggi once mistook one for Venus and was waiting for it to get a bit higher so she could practice with the sextant.
 
#3 · (Edited)
One reason why you should not buy non USCG/ABYC A-16 certified nav lights. Certified nav lights MUST meet certain color spectrum standards or they don't get an approval.

That being said no real reason for an LED masthead/steaming light on many boats unless you want the longevity.....
 
#4 ·
Actually, I can see the use of an LED steaming light. Not all smaller sailboats are equipped for engine charging, mine isn't and others who have older outboard without alternators may not be.

My outboard actually does have a 6 amp alternator, but I have to custom fabricate a longer charging cable because the one that came with the engine doesn't reach the battery bank. Right now, shorepower is my only charging method.

I understand that the USCG will certify a light based on it's brightness, arc of visibility, and color spectrum, but NOWHERE in the COLREGS can I find a reference to color spectrum beyond the words "white, yellow, red, green" etc. All it says, is that on a vessel of 12m or 29ft in length, you must display a white light, visible for 2 nm, in an arc of 22.5 degrees. It doesn't state an exact wavelength, nor does it even say that "only USCG approved lighting fixtures and lighting elements may be used". If it does, someone please provide a cite. Obviously, in a maritime law situation having all USCG approved lighting fixtures and elements provides an extra layer of legal protections, but I'm not seeing where it's mandated by law.

Further, the only time an anchor light or a steaming light should "look like a star" to a helmsman, is during a zero bearing rate (head-on) collision situation, where the light presents the illusion of not moving. In any other crossing scenario, the light will be moving across the helmsman's field of view rapidly enough to differentiate it from a star.

Look, this argument is as old as the hills. People have complained for years about how anchor and steaming lights look like streetlights and automobile lights when compared against the shoreline. There's always going to be an excuse as to why a skipper didn't see someone or suffered a collision.

Even if you legislate the exact frequency of light, lumens, fixture type and replacement elements, and certifying agency, for every class of vessel afloat, people are going complain that they "can't see" and use that as an excuse in a collision.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I understand that the USCG will certify a light based on it's brightness, arc of visibility, and color spectrum, but NOWHERE in the COLREGS can I find a reference to color spectrum beyond the words "white, yellow, red, green" etc.
The standards by which nav lights are built is published in the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations). You, as a used boat owner, are NOT required to have "certified" nav lights or install them UNLESS you are a boat builder or re-seller/broker/dealer. If you buy a new boat in the US it WILL have certified nav lights or the builder broke federal regulations.

If you are a builder you must use USCG/ABYC A-16 nav lights properly installed and placed for proper visibility. All USCG certified or ABYC A-16 lights will meet the minimum standards as set forth by the CFR. This is what labs like IMANNA use when testing nav lights to USCG/CFR nav light standards..
 
#7 ·
This is the write up from Bebi Electronics on the subject. They reference Annex I Paragraph 9 of the COLREG's.

Bebi Electronics-What Our Marine RV & Off Grid LED Specifications Mean

I looked up the associated COLREG's and was suitably convinced in the safety and legality of the device so I went ahead and bought one of their sources for my anchor light and my stern light.

My steaming (masthead) light is incandescent since I'll always have the engine running, but when it blows, I very well may replace it with an LED for durability. I may consider a more "warm-white" type LED when that time comes, if I can get one that is bright enough.

I'm not at all worried about the color of the masthead or stern lights. If anyone mistakes my 30 LED anchor light with a star they have recently seen, they better be in the market for some frankincense.
 
#10 · (Edited)
This is the write up from Bebi Electronics on the subject. They reference Annex I Paragraph 9 of the COLREG's.

Bebi Electronics-What Our Marine RV & Off Grid LED Specifications Mean
An Bebi also says this:

"If you have insurance and you are involved in a collision at night, your claim may be dis-allowed if you have a non-OEM light bulb, whether it is an LED, incandescent, halogen, or fluorescent, in the fixture, regardless of the real reason for the collision."

With the cost of pre-made USCG certified fixtures coming way down in price I find it to be a false economy to use lights that are unknown as to whether they really meet the standards or not. The only way to know for sure is to have them tested by a lab like Imanna. If a manufacturer is not willing to put their money where their mouth is why should I pony up? By the way Bebi's statement that no aftermarket buls carry a USCG certification is a flat out mis-truth. There are four DR. LED bulbs that are USCG certified for use in certain Aquasignal Series 40 housings. I have the certification reports from Imanna stored on my hard drive. I still prefer a purpose built LED nav light as opposed to aftermarket bulbs, and I own two Dr. LED certified nav light combos. The Dr. LED bulbs have not proven to be very reliable and my Hella Series 32 LED's have been very reliable. When the next Dr. LED bulb fails the entire fixture will get replaced with a purpose built unit.

Having been involved in a night time death that involved a solid week of forensic navlight & navlight testimony, well before LED's, I am fairly confident that if my friends father had been using aftermarket LED's the drunk that killed him, by running him over, would have walked..

The defense lawyers left no stone unturned in their nav light investigation from voltage, to possible wiring faults to the flag possibly obstructing the stern light.... An LED that did not meet color, axis or otehr requirements would have made their job a slam dunk..
 
#12 ·
...Next time in a dark anchorage look at the other boats mast head lights and you will see what he's talking about right away. Meggi once mistook one for Venus and was waiting for it to get a bit higher so she could practice with the sextant.
While I have no doubt that Meggi once mistoook an LED anchor light for Venus, realize that you were both anchored, and therefore not likely to collide with the other vessel.

Bubblehead has it right, in that if another vessel confuses your LED steaming light with a star, they are within the 135° arc, while overtaking you.

Rule 13;
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

(b) A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights.
Unless they are approaching you from directly (±5°) behind, the LED stern light should appear to move much more rapidly than a star. Regardless, the LED stern light should appear BELOW the horizon, and well below the plane of visible stars.

This does, however, provide a good argument for investing in an AIS class B transponder....
 
#13 ·
I'd point out that anyone stupid enough to mistake an LED sternlight, which is usually near deck level, for a star, that nothing you do will make you safe from them.

There's a bit more slack regarding steaming lights, since they're mounted higher up, but the big STICK should give them a clue that it ain't a star.

The masttop anchor lights are probably the most likely to be confused for a star accidentally, and the bluer coloration of many of the LED anchor lights, even the USCG approved ones, does tend to make one mis-estimate their distance.
 
#17 ·
There's a bit more slack regarding steaming lights, since they're mounted higher up, but the big STICK should give them a clue that it ain't a star.
It is likely that at night another vessel may not be able to see the mast, but they sure as hell should be able to see the running lights.
 
#15 ·
COLREGS Annex I (9)(b)(i):

All-round lights shall be so located as not to be obscured by masts, topmasts or structures within angular sectors of more than 6 degrees, except anchor lights prescribed in Rule 30, which need not be placed at an impracticable height above the hull.


In other words, hanging an LED lantern as an anchor light well above the deck (e.g., halfway up the forestay) is kosher.
 
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#16 ·
In other words, hanging an LED lantern as an anchor light well above the deck (e.g., halfway up the forestay) is kosher.
And it beats having to climb the mast to change the anchor light. :)
 
#20 ·
I would the spreader lights to anchor at night. That is about it. Even then I would be reluctant to do so.

They are so bright that using them while sailing or when getting ready to sail would affect night vision. It takes about 20 minutes to get your accustomed to the dark.

You should not use lights that could be confused for navigation lights.
 
#22 ·
LOL...you're a riot. :)

Seriously though, I've been told that it's inappropriate to burn them when sailing or motoring because they can be mistaken for other navigation lights, but you'd think that they would be great for illuminating your mast and deck at anchor to avoid a collision.
 
#23 ·
Have you ever seen a cruise ship / fishing boat at night?


I don't believe that there is a CFR that addresses work lights.

However, as Jackdale points out, you'll fry your night vision.
 
#24 ·
Rule 30(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.
 
#25 ·
Let me rephrase that then; I don't believe that there is a CFR that restricts the proper use of work lights
 
#27 ·
eherlihy

There is not a guarantee that commercial shipping will see your class B AIS transponder. The Furuno 2117 radar which is IMO approved for commercial shipping and includes class B filtering, which due to annoyance, is usually turned on when inshore. There is no guarantee that it is turned back on when they head to sea. This link explains in detail. It's an interesting discussion.

SetSail » Blog Archive » Class B AIS Filtering - The "Myth" Is Real
 
#30 ·
Late to the thread, but I have often seen LED Starboard Sidelights that look Blue.
I have no idea if they are regulation lights or not because I am the observer not the one being observed.
I don't like them.
 
#31 ·
tj, if you see a blue solid light, you call the USCG and ask them if there are any military vessels on manuevers in the vicinity. When they say no, you just say thank you, we saw a vessel with a solid blue light and just wanted to make sure.

They should dispatch a response immediately, as blue lights are highly restricted in use. Odds are what you have seen is a green glass nav light that should have had a tungsten bulb in it, but some joker stuck a "white" LED behind it. Bad idea, the LED has to match the color of the lens in order to stand any chance of not being filtered or changed by it.

Considering that an LED steaming light should outlast a conventional one by at least 10x, using an LED steaming light will save you ten inconvenient trips aloft. Worthless? Maybe for some.

And the old post form the OP, that his friend does not use ANY LED nav lights because the white ones might be mistaken for stars? That's just illogical, why should the color of the white ones have anything to do with using the red and green ones? What, he's seen lots of red and green stars too? Again, there will be at least TEN TIMES that you don't have to change that bulb once you've replaced it with LED.

Ten times when you'd have to put down your beer and make a trip to the bulb locker. Hmmmm....
 
#32 ·
In general I don't like Aqua Signal lights- my impression of them has always been that they feel flimsy and don't belong on a boat, but 2 years ago I replaced my incandescent running lights with Aqua Signal 43 LEDs. They are truly amazing. The colors are good and they are embarrassingly bright- I think they're the brightest running lights in the marina. I made my own mounts out of 1/4" aluminum angle as the factory mounts were worthless.
 
#33 ·
I replaced my masthead with an l.e.d. last year. Did not even think about the fact that if in use, the engine is running/charging. Think I'll put the old, approved incandescent festoon bulb back in. Having an anchor light mounted lower than up at the top of the mast also sounds like a very good idea. In some spots, that high anchor light could certainly be missed.
 
#34 ·
Here's an interesting bit about USCG certification and testing. We've been fabricating purpose-built molded in, flush mount USCG certified navigation lamps for over 8 years, for powered yachts up to 50 meters. The lamps are 2NM for vessels to that length. I started making these lights when it was mandated that all vessels after 2004 had to have certified lamps installed. I compare the law to seat belts in cars; accidents occurred because there was no mandatory safety standards in place.

Imanna tests for the color chromaticity, beam angles and beam cut-off, in addition to other testing procedures. The angles are critical because the beams of the port and stbd must meet dead-ahead, parallel to the centerline, have sharp cut-off and can't overlap. The stern must also meet the beams of the port and stbd and can't overlap. This assures no doubt of which direction the approaching or receding vessel is headed in pitch dark.

The color coordinates of the red and green LED's are given in wavelength and use the 1972 COLREG chart for color specifications for land and sea. Traffic lights and navigation lights have the same coordinate standards; deep red and blue-green. White was a bit tricky for LED's, as none existed in 1972 when the COLREGS standards were adopted by the Coast Guard. White LED's did not exist, so the warm white as from a filament bulb was the rule. Most white LED's that were available were too white. Warm white LED's were scarce and very expensive. White LED's color coordinates are listed as x,y coordinates and must fall into the area specified by the COLREG 1972 standards.

The reason I went through all this is to try to settle any misconceptions or doubts about LED's for navigation. All manufacturers of LED running lights must have them tested to these standards, the same standards for ANY TYPE of bulb. The ONLY difference with the LED testing is that the lab takes into account the decay of LED output over it's life and averages that into the intensity results.

Imanna tests more lamps to the required standards than any other lab in the US, as far as I know. Since the standards (color, intensity, beam angles) are the same, regardless of bulb, you can be assured that LED lamps are as safe. In addition, they last many times longer and are immune to vibration. Our lamps, through failure analysis and R&D, have about a 0.3 percent failure rate. They are also fully potted and have a 5 year warranty, the longest in the industry.
 
#41 ·
We've been fabricating purpose-built molded in, flush mount USCG certified navigation lamps for over 8 years, for powered yachts up to 50 meters.

They are also fully potted and have a 5 year warranty, the longest in the industry.
I too would be curious which manufacturer you represent.

As far as warranty Lopolight for one has a 5 year warranty.

And what about non powered boats - they need lights as well.
 
#35 ·
Welcome to SailNet Alan33412.

What LED Lighting manufacturer do you work for?

Also - I suggest that to stay on the good side of the moderators, that you add that affiliation to your signature line.
 
#36 · (Edited)
This is exactly what happens when folks try to make "home baked bread", eg home made nav lights by slapping any old LED into an incandescent fixture.

It is why we have well defined COLREGS standards for navigation lights yet people insist on ignoring the law... USCG certified navigation lights do not pose these problems because they have been tested in accordance with the Code of Federal Regulations/COLREGS for intensity, color, horizontal and vertical sector for legal navigation lights....

The problem is NOT LED nav lights, the problem is navigation lights that are cobbled together by owners wishing to save a buck..

EDIT: Doh' just realized this was a dredge thread and I responded already. Still relevant though...
 
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