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post #21 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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heaving to and hoving to are completely different. As I recall (but i maybe mixing them up!) hoving to is an emergency heavy weather manoever with the idea that the boat is kept at an angle wrt to the on coming waves of about 45 degrees so that the boat maintains speed , rudder control and can roll over the waves. The other, heaving to, is a configuration in order that the boat can be left to sail itself by backing the jib and easing the main so the sailor can do other jobs. If you back the jib and ease the main in storm conditions very good luck to you. Just for further the confusion "bijdraaien' , in dutch is how the sails where traditionally set in good weather so the boat could be left to steer itself and bijleggen is what the dutch sailors did in storm conditions to keep the ship rolling over the waves at a angle.
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post #22 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbylockes View Post
heaving to and hoving to are completely different. As I recall (but i maybe mixing them up!) hoving to is an emergency heavy weather manoever with the idea that the boat is kept at an angle wrt to the on coming waves of about 45 degrees so that the boat maintains speed , rudder control and can roll over the waves. The other, heaving to, is a configuration in order that the boat can be left to sail itself by backing the jib and easing the main so the sailor can do other jobs. If you back the jib and ease the main in storm conditions very good luck to you. Just for further the confusion "bijdraaien' , in dutch is how the sails where traditionally set in good weather so the boat could be left to steer itself and bijleggen is what the dutch sailors did in storm conditions to keep the ship rolling over the waves at a angle.
I'm not familiar with the difference you mention (although I'm always happy to be re-educated). My perspective is that heaving to is the act of doing it, and hove to is the post-execution state. Heaving to, or being hove-to, is used to 'park' the boat (such as it can be with minimal forward or leeward progress) both during normal conditions (to take a break and/or reef a sail) and/or during heavier weather (to take a break and or calm the wave action).

Backing the jib and easing the mainsheet completely, while lashing the tiller seems to work well on a C22 swing keel.

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post #23 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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not steal the thread, but i have tried back winding my working jib, luffing the main and putting tiller over hard to leeward. the boat stalls but then starts to make forward progress, however slight, the slick is always behind me. I have tried playing with rudder angle...and it only pics up speed the more i center the rudder. What could I be doing wrong.

BTW..Alberg 30...seems like it would heave rather easily.


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post #24 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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not steal the thread, but i have tried back winding my working jib, luffing the main and putting tiller over hard to leeward. the boat stalls but then starts to make forward progress, however slight, the slick is always behind me. I have tried playing with rudder angle...and it only pics up speed the more i center the rudder. What could I be doing wrong.

BTW..Alberg 30...seems like it would heave rather easily.


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Cruiser, it sounds to me like you are doing everything right: Keep the tiller to leeward.

Just remember that no boat will ever be completely stationary whilst hove-to but should be moving slowly ahead and to leeward (slight forward progress at an angle to the direction you're pointed).

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post #25 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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Yes...the boat may actually make progress while hove-to..1 to 2 knots..or more depending on the wind..

Bobby, ..I am aware of heaving to.....and laying ahull. is that what you are thinking of..

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post #26 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Cruiser, it sounds to me like you are doing everything right: Keep the tiller to leeward.

Just remember that no boat will ever be completely stationary whilst hove-to but should be moving slowly ahead and to leeward (slight forward progress at an angle to the direction you're pointed).
thanks for the reply, i was always under the assumption that the slick should be abeam to windward...not aft? I have read "Storm Tactics" by the Pardeys and it says to throw bits of paper in water to make sure they dont float away...behind the boat. I thought it was the slick that protected you from the breakers, if its behind me it seems that i would not be fully protected.

i will keep trying, i gotta learn this. i thought maybe i was doing it in to light of conditions...i tried it a few weeks ago in about a 15kt wind...same deal slick was behind me

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post #27 of 34 Old 07-27-2011
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thanks for the reply, i was always under the assumption that the slick should be abeam to windward...not aft? I have read "Storm Tactics" by the Pardeys and it says to throw bits of paper in water to make sure they dont float away...behind the boat. I thought it was the slick that protected you from the breakers, if its behind me it seems that i would not be fully protected.
Ahhh.. nope. It's not that simple.

I'm not familiar with their writings, but in real life exactly where the slick will be depends upon wind strength, wave height, wave direction, current strength, current direction and your boat speed at the time. This means no two situations will necessarily be the same and that wave direction will not necessarily be from the same direction as the slick (although it's nice if that happens!)...

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i will keep trying, i gotta learn this. i thought maybe i was doing it in to light of conditions...i tried it a few weeks ago in about a 15kt wind...same deal slick was behind me
Keep trying. An Alberg 30 should heave-to just fine. Do you have the boom centered in the boat or eased right off? Maybe your hull doesn't have enough weed hanging off the bottom.

To slow yourself down whilst hove-to (to try and get the slick in the dirction you want), try dragging a sea-anchor (or a mooring line or two) in a bight from the stern. See if that helps.

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Last edited by Classic30; 07-27-2011 at 10:37 PM.
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post #28 of 34 Old 07-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbylockes View Post
heaving to and hoving to are completely different.
It's just conjugation and all the same:

"I will heave to."
"He is heaving to."
"We are hove to."

The difference you alluded to is between heaving to (in which one attempts to make little to no way) and forereaching (in which one expects to make one or two knots upwind).

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post #29 of 34 Old 07-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbylockes View Post
heaving to and hoving to are completely different. As I recall (but i maybe mixing them up!) hoving to is an emergency heavy weather manoever with the idea that the boat is kept at an angle wrt to the on coming waves of about 45 degrees so that the boat maintains speed , rudder control and can roll over the waves. The other, heaving to, is a configuration in order that the boat can be left to sail itself by backing the jib and easing the main so the sailor can do other jobs.
I think you are imagining this difference. The phrase "hoving to" is not used by the community.

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If you back the jib and ease the main in storm conditions very good luck to you.
This is a difference in sail trim. Reaching is reaching, regardless of how your sails are configured to make that happen; in light wind you might use a spinnaker and a full main; in heavy winds, maybe just a small jib. Similarly, heaving-to is heaving-to, regardless of what sail combination you use to achieve it.

I would also point out that the goal of surviving a storm and taking a break for lunch are the same kind of goal: the crew wants to rest and not have to actively manage the boat for a little while.

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Just for further the confusion "bijdraaien' , in dutch is how the sails where traditionally set in good weather so the boat could be left to steer itself and bijleggen is what the dutch sailors did in storm conditions to keep the ship rolling over the waves at a angle.
So, those words may refer to sail configurations, but "heaving-to" does not. It happens to be the case that heaving-to often involves backing an appropriately-sized jib, and doing something or other with the main, and so people have a tendency to use the term to refer to the sail configuration, but that is not correct. If you put your sails in a "hove-to configuration", but you end up making 5 knots of headway with very little leeway, you are not hove-to.

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post #30 of 34 Old 07-28-2011
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So, those words may refer to sail configurations, but "heaving-to" does not. It happens to be the case that heaving-to often involves backing an appropriately-sized jib, and doing something or other with the main, and so people have a tendency to use the term to refer to the sail configuration, but that is not correct. If you put your sails in a "hove-to configuration", but you end up making 5 knots of headway with very little leeway, you are not hove-to.
Just to clear up any confusion that may or may not exist: Perhaps you aren't "making 5 knots of headway" when hove-to, but you will be moving slowly forward and to leeward. This is because, to remain hove-to you have to have steerage way.

Without a flow of water over the rudder, with the action of wind and waves, (most) boats won't stay pointing in the same direction to the wind. Since the whole idea is to find a balance between sailing forward (usually on the main) and being pushed back (usually by the jib), the rudder has to keep the boat pointed at the right angle to the wind.

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"Honestly, I don't know why seamen persist in getting wrecked in some of the outlandish places they do, when they can do it in a nice place like Fiji." -- John Caldwell, "Desperate Voyage"
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