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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 10-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithW View Post
Not familiar with this chart, but I think "Rk" in this situation probably does refer to actual charted rocks, not the nature of the seabed. See Chart No. 1, K-b and K-14.
A "Rk" symbol without anything special near it refers to the nature of the bottom. A "Rk" symbol next to a blue circle indicates an individual rock or rocky projection off of the surrounding substrate. Now that I look at it a bit more closely, one "Rk" with the red line going through it is the former, while the other appears to be the latter. However, in the case of the later the course doesn't go right through the indicted position of the rock(s), and the rock(s) should be several feet below the keel (10' depth vs a 6' draft). Still, I would have opted to take the mark to port, as the distances appear to be pretty tight in any case.
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Last edited by SlowButSteady; 10-04-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-04-2011
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In my defense the hand held chart plotter I have only showed the dotted circles and no numbers inside. I had no way of knowing the depth. I also had just started my shift and was a little groggy and surprised to see the bouy.
Like folks have said with the real chart the capt had apparently figured correctly that there was no problem. I had only seconds so changed course, better safe than sorry.
It woke me up quick thats for sure

Last edited by davidpm; 10-04-2011 at 11:20 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
...better safe than sorry.
...
That's the bottom line.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
We are just east of Glen Cove NY, traveling West at about 6+ knots at night.

I had just taken the helm and was following the course the captain had set.
I'm primarily watching for traffic of course there is not much else to do as the autopilot was on.
I'm thinking I should check the GPS just to make sure. Just then I see G"21" and I'm thinking that sometimes they put the buoy's up because something bad is nearby.

I checked the GPS and immediately make a course correction to pass the buoy on my port. The captain said that he wasn't worried because those rock symbles were about rocks really deep. We draw 6 feet.
I was not so sure.
On the chart below, the red course line goes right through the symbol Rk. The way I read it when it says Rk with no depth it means it could be a problem.
I my defense my GPS shows even less information and only shows the danger area just above the line with no depth and the RK with no other info and the blue area below the line with no depth so I thought I had to dodge three things not just one. I notice that the GPS even on highest resolution leaves out some information that is on the chart
But maybe I'm just being too cautious.
What do you think?
David--

The snip-it of chart you show does not convey enough information. A larger look is more informative (below). All of LI Sound is to the north of that mark and largely clear of obstructions. Beyond that, however, is the fact that you apparently did not understand what you were looking at when reading the chart. Moreover, when I am traversing an area that is subject to "big-ship" traffic, and particularly at night, I will not sail in deep-water channels specifically to avoid any interaction with them. I would be very unhappy if a well intended but ill-informed crew made a unilateral decision to alter a laid in course. We have a rule "When in question or in doubt--Wake the Captain, Call him Out!"

It's simple--if you don't know, ask.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2011
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+1 to everything above about being cautious, particularly at night in unfamiliar water. I think Minnewaska makes a good point also that what you see on he chart as Rk, rks, or Rky refers to bottom composition and not protruding obstacles. That said I draw 5 feet and wouldn't cut the corner in unfamiliar water day or night. You never know when you will happen upon an old ski boat that someone dumped there or a pile of concrete that found its way out there.
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2011
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While you did not have the paper chart, a closer look at the Chart No. 1 would be a very good idea. The key is the typeface. The italic "rk" in that particualr typeface is an indication of the bottom, useful for anchoring. It has nothing to do with depth. The buoy is there to mark a safe passage, but your draft (and the height of tide) are huge variables and it is often safe (and often unsafe) to pass on the other side of the buoy. By the way, given your location the captain sould have mentioned the buoy. They make a loud clang when you hit them.
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2011
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Re: "loud clang"

Not to mention the nasty scrape they leave down the side of the formerly pretty white sailboat.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2011
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[QUOTE=svHyLyte;782851]David--

The snip-it of chart you show does not convey enough information. A larger look is more informative (below). All of LI Sound is to the north of that mark and largely clear of obstructions. Beyond that, however, is the fact that you apparently did not understand what you were looking at when reading the chart. Moreover, when I am traversing an area that is subject to "big-ship" traffic, and particularly at night, I will not sail in deep-water channels specifically to avoid any interaction with them. I would be very unhappy if a well intended but ill-informed crew made a unilateral decision to alter a laid in course. We have a rule "When in question or in doubt--Wake the Captain, Call him Out!"

It's simple--if you don't know, ask.[/]

I agree completely. In this case however by the time I saw the mark there was time to react and that was all. I knew north was 99 percent safe and south was questionable.

There was almost 0 chance of my turning into traffic. Good thought though.


On a different trip at night sailing fast I blew by a dark buoy mid sound clearing by 15 feet. When I complained to the captain that he didn't warn me, I didn't have my own gps at the time, he claimed it was not on the chart.
20 min later he found it. It was hidden by a coffee stain.

The point is that if you are at the helm it is pretty much your fault if you hit something even if you have help.
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2011
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Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
If you are given sole control over the helm, you have both the authority and responsibility to course correct to keep the vessel and crew safe. A Captain should never entrust the helm to any singlehander that didn't qualify to have this authority.

P.S. The OP proved they did qualify in my book.
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  #30  
Old 10-05-2011
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Any change of shift should come with a status report from the previous shift that would include: weather, traffic, navigation and any standing watch orders. Barring that, your shift, your call. You made the call to alter course a few hundred yards, at most, to avoid a questionable in your mind hazard. Those greens are off every " point" on that dark shoreline...no harm, no foul. Could you have cut the corner safely..probably. But by leaving it to port, you made the safest choice.

When I left Port Jeff, this July headed west toward the East River, we were in patchy fog most of the way. Those greens are critical nav aids. Last year in the chesapeake, I watched someone run aground trying to cut the corner at Bloody Point..
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