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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 09-09-2003
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Traveler usage?

Jeff,

Thank you for your kind apology, but you still miss the point.

Humpwalker didnít ask for advice generally on sail trim. He asked specifically about the basic uses of the traveler by a novice. In my first post, I responded narrowly to Humpwalkerís request, and gave him suggestions on the most basic uses of the traveler.

He didnít ask about sail trim generally, or about powering the sailplan up or down, and I didnít discuss that subject. I was amazed that you could conclude that I donít understand the subject, when I didnít even discuss the subject. Now, you say my post didnít reflect my understanding of the concept, but, again, thatís because I didnít discuss it. I also didnít talk about light-air sailing techniques, but that doesnít mean I donít know anything about light air sailing.

Your first message in this thread was uncharacteristically brief and incomplete, so I added my two cents. Then you decided to go beyond the narrow question asked, and to talk about powering up and down from A to Z, and thatís fine. It was a good contribution. All I ask is that, if you feel moved to express your opinion that any of the rest of us donít know what weíre talking about, do it for something we said, and not for something we didnít say, and be fair. We all appreciate your contributions, but nobody wants to be unfairly targeted.

We still disagree on the accuracy of the knotmeter as a sail trimming tool. You say that your experience has enabled you to develop ďa sense of the pattern of change,Ē so that you can see a meaningful pattern in the readings of the knotmeter and wind instrument as they are jumping around. Thatís fine for you, but it isnít much help to the novice, who hasnít had enough experience to develop that sense, and who is still learning the fundamentals of sailing. Many of the people on this forum donít have your experience, or wind instruments, and some donít have knotmeters. For them, trying to use the knotmeter for subtle tweaking of the sails in light air would only serve to frustrate them. I stand by my advice. If you learn as much as you can about sail trim and about every aspect of sailing, and put that knowledge into use, your boat will sail faster and more efficiently. Knotmeters donít make sailboats go fast. Knowledge makes them go fast.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2003
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Traveler usage?

Humpwalker,

I want to apologize to you for the fact that your question got sidetracked. One of your concerns was to find a way to measure whether your sail trimming is working. You have tried to use the knotmeter, but, when you made slight changes in sail trim, the knotmeter has apparently not registered changes in boatspeed that assured you that the sail trimming helped. Let me try to get you thinking about the problem in a little different way.

Why do you need to see proof that every sail trim technique that you use is actually working? Dinghy racers donít have knotmeters or wind instruments, and they learn to trim their sails with precision without those aids. They use telltales and knowledge to make sure that their sails are correctly trimmed. Telltales that are attached to your rigging show you the direction of the apparent wind, and telltales that are attached to your sails help you visualize the way the air is moving over the surface of your sails. If the telltales are not flying correctly, that tells you that you probably need to correct something about your sail trim. If they are flying correctly, that tells you that your sails are trimmed fairly well. The average sailor can read telltales reasonably well and make the adjustments that will keep the telltales flying fairly well. That level of skill will put you among the average sailors.

After your telltales tell you that your sails are reasonably well trimmed, how do you make those finer adjustments to your sail trim that extract every bit of available power from your sails? Thatís where knowledge comes into the equation. The more skilled sailors have studied sail shape and sail trim, and have practiced what they have learned until they know what a perfectly trimmed sail (for the applicable conditions) looks like. They can visualize it in their mindís eye. When they look at their sails, and compare them with that mental image, they can see the differences, and they know just what to do to make their sails conform to that image.

The ability to see imperfections in your sail trim is not a mystical ability that some of us are born with and some are not. Those indicators are always present for anyone to see. First, you have to learn what to look for. Then you have to study your sails. I looked at my sails for years and didnít see some of the more subtle indicators or understand how to interpret them. After the first time I saw them, they became much more obvious. If you can look at your sails and see that they are trimmed impeccably, then you will know that your sails are generating as much power as the laws of physics permit, and, just like dinghy racers, you wonít need a knotmeter to tell you so.

I wish someone could give you a short course on precision sail trimming, but I know thatís not possible on the forum. Thereís no easy substitute for studying the authorities on sail trim, and for practice. You can probably make the quickest progress in that regard by taking one of the good racing courses that is offered by some of the best known sailing schools.
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  #13  
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Traveler usage?

Humpwalker infers, what I believe to be true, that Dinghy sailing / racing is the very quickest way to improve your sailing skills.(ie: Dinghy Sailors don''t need/use knotlogs/windspeed indicators etc)
Those little beasts are very eager to tell you when you''ve done something right or wrong, and they do it in an emphatic manner.
OMO
Gord
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Traveler usage?

Sailormon6 infers, what I believe to be true, that Dinghy sailing / racing is the very quickest way to improve your sailing skills.(ie: Dinghy Sailors don''t need/use knotlogs/windspeed indicators etc)
Those little beasts are very eager to tell you when you''ve done something right or wrong, and they do it in an emphatic manner.
OMO
Gord
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Old 02-28-2004
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Traveler usage?

Wow. That was lot of interesting stuff to digest. thanks folks.

As A bit of a begginner myself, I ahve to admit that I tend to use my main traveller as a steering tool to balance the boat''s weather helm/lee helm tendencies.

From my point of view, changing the angle of pull away from the boat''s centreline introduces a directional change that means you can have your rudder "in the middle" except when you actually want to change direction.


This has actually been workin quite well for us. It puzzles me to learn that this isn''t what it is for (since it works so well at it).

Oh well.


Sasha
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Old 02-29-2004
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Traveler usage?

Hi Sasha,

There is nothing wrong with using your traveller to reduce weather helm. It is a quick way of reducing the angle of attack of the sail, (the angle between the apparent wind and the sail). This is one quick step step in the process of ''blading out''. It is a very good way to go since when you drop the traveller in building winds rather than ease the mainsheet, you are not ''powering up'' the sail (see explanation above). This should reduce both heeling and weather helm and may be all that you need to do in a gust.

On raceboats in gusty conditions, we are constantly playing the traveller with the changes in windspeed and to a great extent use the traveller to steer the boat in big winds and waves.

If you are sailing in heavier winds for a sustained period, tightening the halyards, backystay, and outhaul, combined with moving the jib lead a notch or two aft, will further reduce weather helm and heeling up to the point that you need to reef or change down to a smaller jib.

Jeff
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  #17  
Old 02-29-2004
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Traveler usage?

Sasha,

As Jeff points out, easing the traveller is one way of reducing weather helm, especially in gusts, but there can be different causes of weather helm, and there are, likewise, different ways that you can reduce weather helm. For example, you can affect weather helm by sail trim, by adjusting sail area, and by adjusting the mast itself. If you are interested in learning more about it, you might want to read another discussion on this forum entitled "Factors Influencing Boat Balance," where it is being discussed in some detail.
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  #18  
Old 02-15-2007
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Post Sorry, A little confused, bored and wanting attention!

First, my name is Bryin and I currently live in Brooklyn, New York. I stumbled across this forum while surfing the web for various other topics and browsed around a bit and though I would stop in and see if I could add anything to your community.

Hopefully I go mostly unnoticed as I am unsure how I may contribute but I am going to do my best to try and add something beneficial.

So, as an introduction I'm an information security professional and work for a large data security house as an analyst for large corporations requiring an immediate technician to evaluate their network infrastructure for attacks and vulnerabilities.

Okay, no more gobble-de-gook. If this post is within the wrong category, mod, please adjust it.

On another note, did anyone ever experience the website that was marketing snakes on a plane, that samuel l jackson flick? There is another website setup that you can use to send similar messages to people, not that you care but its called callitfake.com. Pretty interesting stuff.

Sorry if you think I'm spamming, but this is my first post, I'm just bored and have no one to talk to so I'm just hanging out.. waiting on someone to give me something I can interact with. Glad I could be a part of your community, once again, Thanks!
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  #19  
Old 02-15-2007
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I am certain that the previous post is spam but when it gets deleted, my having made this post will keep it where I can read the whole thread when I have time.
pigslo
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  #20  
Old 02-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishzeros
Sorry if you think I'm spamming, but this is my first post, I'm just bored and have no one to talk to so I'm just hanging out.. waiting on someone to give me something I can interact with. Glad I could be a part of your community, once again, Thanks!
Uh...shure. No problem. I never thought this was spam anyway.... We should thank you for resurrecting a great thread.
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