Roll over survival - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 01-26-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,043
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Roll over survival

There have been many discussions about the seamanship required to survive a life-threatening storm. Reefing, steaming warps, drogues, and heaving too have all be discussed.

It is also common knowledge that lockers and companionways need to be secured and cockpits need large drains because in the case of boarding seas or knockdown the boat can take on water and flounder.

I've only been on two boats that were pinned down to about maybe 75 degrees.
In both cases I got to tell you we were very busy just holding on.

It is very, very hard to actively sail the boat in these conditions.
In Abby's case according to the book she had just come through a pretty bad storm and was just cleaning up below when a rogue wave rolled the boat. She bounced around the cabin quite a bit and was even knocked out for a few seconds.

So here is the question?
When does the captain make the decision to leave the cockpit?
If the conditions are so brutal that you can't see 6 inches and your hands don't work it is so cold you might as well go below.
If you get so tired it is not safe to be above.

If the boat gets rolled you are very likely going to loose the rig. Not for sure but very possible so staying on deck and actively keeping the boat right side up is a good thing.

But here is my point. If the likelihood of a roll is high do people often survive in the cockpit? Do you remember any reports where people stay tethered and survive? Un-thering is an option, risky but possible if their are other crew boats nearby like in a race but not much of an option for cruising alone.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 01-26-2012
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,041
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post

But here is my point. If the likelihood of a roll is high do people often survive in the cockpit? Do you remember any reports where people stay tethered and survive? Un-thering is an option, risky but possible if their are other crew boats nearby like in a race but not much of an option for cruising alone.
David

The Fatal Storm and Proving Ground (The 1998 Sydney Hobart Race) should be right next to Fastnet Force 10 on you bookshelf. There are a couple of examples of capsized boats with tethered crews.

When cruising wear a PLB. It "might" help.

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 14 Old 01-26-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,043
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
David

The Fatal Storm and Proving Ground (The 1998 Sydney Hobart Race) should be right next to Fastnet Force 10 on you bookshelf. There are a couple of examples of capsized boats with tethered crews.

When cruising wear a PLB. It "might" help.
I read them a long time ago. Will get them again.

I'm not sure I could hold my breath that long?
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 14 Old 01-26-2012 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 4,043
Thanks: 273
Thanked 62 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
David

The Fatal Storm and Proving Ground (The 1998 Sydney Hobart Race) should be right next to Fastnet Force 10 on you bookshelf. There are a couple of examples of capsized boats with tethered crews.

When cruising wear a PLB. It "might" help.
Just bought it. I'm not sure I like it or if it is even a good thing but I can get a book in less that 30 seconds now. At least this one was only 5 bucks.

Last edited by davidpm; 01-27-2012 at 01:58 PM.
davidpm is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 14 Old 01-27-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
The book Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts

http://www.amazon.com/Desirable-Unde...7644337&sr=8-1

has a chapter which describes tests of yachts in wave pools. They capsize boats and measure their ability to right themselves. Of course, if your main is up and sheeted in tight, or if when your boat is capsized it becomes a flat bottom boat, the time to right itself is significantly longer.

Knowing the characteristics of the boat you're sailing should inform your decision of when to go below and how to 'gracefully degrade' from the effort to make way.

Additional good advice in this book includes - having a mast with a Storm Tri-sail bent on and ready to go... for instance, the Lefiell OM3D mast has a 2nd integral track for a storm tri-sail. Cruising Mast & Boom Assemblies.

This book was an easy read... I absorbed it in 3 weeks... Lots of expert knowledge regarding cruising boats.
jlynker is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 14 Old 01-27-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: tulsa ok
Posts: 226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
this is a damned good thread. these are indeed the very things i think about! i am looking forward to reading all the replies.
mikieg is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 14 Old 01-27-2012
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
smurphny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 3,544
Thanks: 89
Thanked 105 Times in 102 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Capsize ratio was #1 on my list of design factors in choosing an Alberg 35 to renovate and sail. It came in WAY ahead of speed, cabin space, and resale value. In the event of an actual 360 degree roll, differentiated from a knockdown, from what I've read, the mast/rigging will almost surely break. The swages/aluminum/s.s. is nowhere near strong enough to absorb the force of water, leveraged against the boat by the length of the rig. Even if you're below, this will require getting on deck to secure the battering ram that is likely still attached by the rigging that did not break. If far from help, saving pieces could be used to jury rig. So, you're going to be tethered to a boat being tossed around by breaking waves, rigging flying about, boat in danger of rolling again with you on deck. Would some sort of small rebreather be a wise thing to have if you ever have to be on deck in these conditions? As long as the hatches and boards are in you KNOW she will right herself eventually. Is it wise to even use an inflatable pfd which may go off at the wrong moment as you're struggling to secure the rig? Do you want one to go off if you're clinging like a barnacle to the inverted boat?

Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
smurphny is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 14 Old 01-27-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: tulsa ok
Posts: 226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
tell me about this capsize ratio. how is it calculated and what is a good number?
mikieg is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 14 Old 01-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 203
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
This may help. Capsize Formula Dan S/V Marian Claire
marianclaire is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 14 Old 01-27-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: tulsa ok
Posts: 226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
ok, so what is a good number?
mikieg is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
roll at rest Advocate777 General Discussion (sailing related) 10 01-27-2011 04:18 PM
Roll Advocate777 Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 6 10-11-2010 06:37 PM
roll your own tethers janders Gear & Maintenance 33 08-19-2008 04:23 PM
Roll Call lsbrodsky Pacific Seacraft 19 12-23-2006 01:28 PM
roll and tip tech? bigsarg1 Gear & Maintenance 1 06-06-2006 10:20 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome