Weather Helm: Desirable or Dangerous - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


View Poll Results: How much weather helm does your boat exhibit?
None, she sails like a feather on an arrow. 2 10.00%
A little, a bungee takes care of the deviation. 6 30.00%
More than average, but I see it as a safety feature. 5 25.00%
Can't take my hand(s) of the wheel-tiller ~my arms are like Popeye's. 1 5.00%
Normally 5 degrees or less, easily held 6 30.00%
I don't think about helm weather 'cause I have a pilot house 0 0%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree12Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 02-02-2012
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,834
Thanks: 26
Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Rich

Great discussion of sail shape. Many folks could benefit from proper sail shape and flattening their sails before they need to reef.

How much does heel contribute to weather helm? Since the theoretical hull speed is based on water line, will the leeward side (with a longer longer line) not be able to generate more speed than the windward side; ending in a round up? Shifting crew weight on a race boat is a common practice. In heavy air to windward, in lighter air to leeward. Race crew also tend to change foresails before reefing the main.

The "textbooks" use CLR and CE and tell us to reef the main first, then foresail, then main, etc.. But in my experience a foresail change will eliminate heel and reduce weather helm.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 02-02-2012
AdamLein's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
AdamLein will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
How much does heel contribute to weather helm? Since the theoretical hull speed is based on water line, will the leeward side (with a longer longer line) not be able to generate more speed than the windward side; ending in a round up?
I think not, not until you're going fast enough that the leeward side can take advantage of the longer waterline. I have experienced weather helm when my boat speed was much lower than my theoretical hull speed.

Instead I think that weather helm due to heel is primarily a result of the fact that the COE of the sails is no longer over the centerline of the boat, adding a moment to the forces on the boat. This moment will always tend to turn the boat away from the side the rig is on.

This effect will be present regardless of boat speed.
jackdale and msmith10 like this.
__________________
s/v Essorant
1972 Catalina 27
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 02-02-2012
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,149
Thanks: 3
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
One nice feature with our boat is that the centerboard allows us to control the amount of weather helm (I guess technically what we can do is move the center of lateral resistance when we drop the board). Absolutely essential to get maximum performance about of the Monitor windvane. I guess w/o the c/b we would have to do the things suggested here to reduce our helm when the wind pipes up.
__________________
Finished the circumnavigation in early February in Grenada. Have to work on a book project for the next several months so the boat will be waiting for next year.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 02-02-2012
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,808
Thanks: 55
Thanked 63 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
One nice feature with our boat is that the centerboard allows us to control the amount of weather helm (I guess technically what we can do is move the center of lateral resistance when we drop the board). Absolutely essential to get maximum performance about of the Monitor windvane. I guess w/o the c/b we would have to do the things suggested here to reduce our helm when the wind pipes up.
Your Bristol 45 is a nice design. It seems to be similar to the P-40 which is on my shortlist of "next boats." If I had to choose one fault in my A-35, it would be the large main which requires constant attention to keep the windvane working. Being able to adjust the center of effort would be a godsend.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weather helm on starboard, lee helm on port donlofland Gear & Maintenance 3 01-17-2012 05:49 PM
Weather Helm vs Lee Helm grantheadifen Learning to Sail 4 06-22-2009 05:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:05 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.