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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #11  
Old 10-24-2006
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I would like some follow-up on this thread. One expert tells us that junk rig is difficult to reef because the yard thrashes about during the process and the brails are difficult to gather in...Annie Hill and Hasler/Mcleod claim that reefing is easy, calm and can be done from the cockpit.

Is there a difference here due to the exact design of the sail? Hasler/Mcleod have a nice set of diagrams which purport to show the geometry of a junk sail as it it reefed, leading them to some specific conclusions about the overall geometry of the sail.

Can those of us who have reefed a junk in strong wind - ie lets say 35 knots plus, tell the rest of us of their experience - and tell us the name of the boat or some details of its rig to help us understand what shape of sail it was.

For those without access to Hasler and McLeod's "Practical Junk Rig", Annie Hill used their recommended shape, a parallelogram consisting of a boom and four (foremast) and five (mainmast) battens; this being topped by one angled batten at approx 45 degrees and the yard at 70 or 80 to the horizontal.

best wishes to all (for a calm, informative and open-hearted discussion)..
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2006
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Wow ! People do get quite passionate about their rigs , don't they ? :-)

In much the same way that I love the look of a timber gaffer but would not want to own one I also admire the junk rig when I see one. Having said that, even cruisers have to sail to windward every now and then and often this is to claw your way off from danger. For that reason if for no other I'm sticking with ye olde bermudan masthead.

Blondie Hasler did indeed spend many years racing and cruising with a junk rig but from what I've read that was as much to do with a desire to not have to go out into the weather as anything else. He is quoted as saying that in the first single handed trans atlantic he crossed the ocean without ever having to take of his slippers and dressing gown. Also, in terms of ease of handling, Jester was a modified Folk Boat of 26 feet.

Going into big boats there is a thing out there called the Maltese Falcon that is marginally bigger than a folk boat and has a modified junk rig on three masts. The last article I read about her noted than in order to tack they have to start the engines but she will do in excess of 25 knots on a reach.
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Old 04-24-2007
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I have a "modified" junk rig -- technically a Gallant rig aerofoil design -- but basically a junk. Pix at SV Aphrodite -- the Beginnings

I have reefed in 30-40 kts and find that heading into the wind is just as helpful as on a Bermuda rig. The rig "almost" reefs itself since the sails are quite heavy, but the airfoil design allows wind into the sails and that means I have to go forward to pull the battens down. But just releasing the halyard on a sail gives me about a 30 percent reduction in sail area. Then I have to secure the reefs. That's not difficult, even in 30 to 40 kts. The main reef point is somewhat abaft the mast and is easy to tie in. Then there is a single line at the very front of the sail that locks in a camcleat and a reef point at the tail end of the sail.

But the main job on my rig is pulling the sails out from between the battens to prevent chafe. Tying in the reef points is easy. Over all I consider it easier to reef the two sails on my 46 ft schooner than it was reefing the main and roller furling jib on my Newport 33.

As others have remarked, windward performance is not spectacular with a junk rig (and mine is no exception), and I have found it necessary in rough conditions to use the engine when coming about to avoid being caught in stays. Frankly, I don't want to jibe in 30 to 40 kt winds when I'm the only one handling the sails. Just too hard to coordinate, but I'd do it with a crew person to handle the second sheet. Don't know that I'd want to do it above 40 kts though! I should mention that with 30 kts of wind I have one to two reefs in.

In calm seas and 20 kts (typical trade wind conditions for me in Hawaii), I can make 5 kts to windward at 45 deg apparent wind. Trying to point higher than that drops the speed dramatically. And I need at least 4.5 kts to come about reliably.

Cheers,

Carl Bostek
S/V Aphrodite
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Old 04-24-2007
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Carl-

Are you aware that you're replying to a thread that was dead and buried... six-months dead.
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Old 04-25-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Carl-
Are you aware that you're replying to a thread that was dead and buried... six-months dead.
Why does it matter? Maybe Kenichi Horie will weigh in on this dead and buried thread someday.
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Old 04-11-2008
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Originally Posted by gyrfalcon View Post
Why does it matter? Maybe Kenichi Horie will weigh in on this dead and buried thread someday.
Or not...
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Old 04-11-2008
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LOL.. that was funny.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 05-12-2013
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Re: junk rig

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Carl-

Are you aware that you're replying to a thread that was dead and buried... six-months dead.
And now you're aware that I'm replying to this loooong dead thread to say that it was still informative, all the way here in 2013.
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Old 11-11-2013
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Re: junk rig

Keep the thread going. Who cares how old it is. I'm looking at it and now trying to get as much info as I can. New or old - who cares? Wait, the "viewing" information says other people are looking too. I guess I'll click around to see who. Wait . . . Kenichi!?
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Re: junk rig

Ming Ming II by Roger Taylor sea trials of his new boat;



Introduction to the junk-rigged Corribee Mingming
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