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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #141  
Old 08-06-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

minne,

in your situation, be it 900 lbs combo of chain/anchor, or 900 lbs of solid iron, lead or what have you, you would have stayed put! Now if hurricane+ winds had shown up...........I think a different story would have unfolded! more due to you not being able to secure the anchor.

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  #142  
Old 08-06-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Sounds like no anchor would do in those weeds. Some bottoms are just un-achorable, But with big gear you'll find you can get away with poor bottom conditions for a night here and there, if you need to duck in and get some rest, doubtful he would of chosen that anchorage if a blow was coming. I alway's swim dowm and push my flukes in by hand even if they've dug, alway's swim out and check my anchors visibly, it could be a clear warm water Caribbean thing. I want to know, I want to see whats happening down there, Maybe I found the only weed patch in a sea of hard sand, or there is some debris, or I god forbid dropped on a coral bed.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 08-06-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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  #143  
Old 08-06-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

If there's anything this thread has inspired me to do, it's to get bigger chain and more of it. My boat came with a 35 lb Spade but unfortunately the chain is only 5 feet and barely bigger than the stuff you use to hang your kitchen chandelier - and it's rusty. Luckily WM has G4 chain on sale now for cheaper than I've seen it at any of our favorite online retailers. I plan to get as much 5/16 as I can reasonably carry/handle without a windlass.
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  #144  
Old 08-06-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

4arch
AMEN BROTHER! CAN I GET A WITNESS?! I'm serious, I was given a hard time early on in this thread about 1/4 inch chain. It may very well have the working load. ( and by the way, I was reminding an old friend of my Coast Guard chain expeirience, and he reminded me that it was 1/4 inch stainless, if that makes more sense to the nay sayers) Either way, I bent it.
Your chain should be as heavy and long as you can handle. A boat length of 5/8 is a sh!t ton better than the same length of 1/4 every which way you look at it. It's about lifting the weight of the chain before you put any load on what ever anchor in what ever bottom type.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 08-06-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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  #145  
Old 08-06-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

All other considerations about the 1/4 inch aside, I could not find a shackle that's big enough to work with the size anchor I have but small enough to fit through the links of the smaller chain. That sealed it for me, although I like the heft of the 5/16 better too.
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  #146  
Old 08-11-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthomartin:905780
I love reading peoples take on anchors. So important! I have spent a lot of time researching the different types and have had the luxury over the past 4 years to observe and test from the Great Lakes to the Med, Africa, Canaries,and the length of the E.Caribbean.
First, if you use a CQR for anything other than a paper wt dump it!! It is the most popular really bad anchor ever invented. Only good thing about it is how nicely it hangs on the bow roller.
PIf you tend to stay in one area you can go with an anchor good for that bottom type but otherwise a solid all around is a must. Wt. really is more about penetrating weed, grass, and firm bottoms. Holding has little to do with wt. For example the Spade aluminum has the same holding power as the steel.

Bottom line, go as big as you are comfortable with. If you have a windlass carry as much chain as practical for the boat. Go with something like a Spade, Mason Supreme, Rocna, etc for primary anchor. Deltas still good anchor as well, I have one as a secondary along with a fortress secondary.

Great sailing all
You must work at West Marine. Rocna et al made in China fail shear testing, and do not get a Lloyds pass. Regardless of which anchor you like, it's the amount of chain you use in combination with your scope that tells the story.
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  #147  
Old 08-11-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
4arch
It's about lifting the weight of the chain before you put any load on what ever anchor in what ever bottom type.
There is significant load on the anchor a long time before the chain lifts off the bottom. If you anchor with a fouled anchor that cannot dig in at all. The combination will drag in very light wind.
By keeping the anchor pull horizontal the chain helps the anchor work better (at low wind speeds at higher speeds it lifts off the bottom anyway), but the chain on its own does not offer much resistance.

Last edited by noelex77; 08-11-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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  #148  
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_hunter View Post
You must work at West Marine. Rocna et al made in China fail shear testing, and do not get a Lloyds pass. Regardless of which anchor you like, it's the amount of chain you use in combination with your scope that tells the story.
See the answer above. If you don't believe he power of the anchor try substituting it with a simple weight. Another test is to try pulling the anchor chain along the ground ( where it's actually heavier due to loss of bouyancy).
A couple of months ago a dragged 50m of 1/2 inch chain from my boat on the hard stand to the rubbish/ recycling area of the marina. It was not hard to do.

An anchor that is not set will to hold you in any significant wind no matter how heavy the chain is. The modern anchors set much better, deeper, quicker and reliably than the older generation anchors. Come diving with me and I will show you.
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  #149  
Old 08-11-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_hunter View Post
Rocna et al made in China fail shear testing, and do not get a Lloyds pass.
If you are going to post factually worded statements you might want to back them up? Please show us:

1- Where a Rocna failed a sheer test. Links to this sheer test might help.

2- The Lloyds test that it failed to not get a "pass" on..

Rocna anchors are RINA certified not Lloyds and they do now have that certification despite still being produced in China.... The RINA and Lloyds numbers for SHHP are nearly identical so if one anchor passes RINA it is using nearly the same load standards as Lloyds and vice versa.

Proof Load Testing Rocna 55 - 29 Metric Tons


It took roughly 64,000 pounds to bend that Rocna 55kg anchor.... It never failed at a weld only bent at approx 64,000 pounds of force..
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 08-11-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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  #150  
Old 08-11-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

In my area (eastern NC), the bottom is typically sand or mud, and sometimes quite soft. We also get hurricanes from time to time, but are inland enough so that usually they have decreased to about 70-80 kts., sometimes with higher gusts. In hurricanes, you will always get a 180 degree change of direction. In each storm, there are lots of boats that have anchored out and drag. One trick that seems to be working in this area and for this bottom is connecting the anchor to a short (~6 ft.) cable, and then connecting the cable to the normal short length of chain (~6-20 ft.), and finally, a nylon rode. Apparently, when the wind force is on the boat, the anchor will be pulled out/through the sand/mud even though it seemed set when it was put out.
The thinner profile of the cable allows the anchor to bury itself deep, and then seems more capable of holding the boat. While I do not have that arangement myself (I choose to stay at the pier in a spiderweb of lines to keep the boat centered in the slip, while accommodating change in water down 5 ft., up ~9 ft.), I know of a Hunter 340 that experienced a severe dragging problem in one storm with just anchor/chain/nylon, but in two storms since then with the cable in the system, and anchored in the same location, did not drag. The owner had trouble recovering his anchor aftwards, and in one case, I think he had to get a diver to dig it out. He uses a realatively small Danforth anchor (which I personally consider way too small). The nylon rodes act as shock absorbers in the waves and wind gusts. An all chain rode does not. In hurricane force winds, that chain is most likely going to be lifted off the ground and tight towards the boat, and while chain will handle the waves and wind, it passes the shock/impact of those directly to the boat. Normally, on the boat, the anchor gear (rode) is attached a cleat. Having cleats pulled out in these storms is not unusual. Not pushing a concept here, just offering something a little different. And if I have to anchor out in one of the storms, it will include multiple anchors, including at least one of the new generation anchors (I have a Mantus on order -- selected that one because I can disassemble it and keep it below in a locker).

Last edited by NCC320; 08-11-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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