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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #151  
Old 08-11-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Here is a website that gives a lot of information regarding the forces your boat will encounter in various wind conditions, the performance of different rodes...chain, chain/nylon, nylon, impact of anchor size and type of bottom. It's technical, but bear with the author, and at various points he condenses the information into formulas where you just enter the known characteristics of your boat and its equipment and you get a readout of forces. In anchors, he does not try to tell which type to use, but rather treats them on a general basis, which works down to weight. Specific design of anchors will vary quite a bit and also their performance. For this info, you will need to see manufacturer, magazine, vendor, and other tests and draw your own conclusion as to the anchors that fit your situation.

Forces

If you get winds of 90 kts., the forces that a predicted by the formula will be on the order of 7523 lbs. on a 33 ft. boat. If the winds are in the 60 kt. range, that drops to 3343 lbs. The holding power of the bottom varies widely with bottom type.....in a ratio of about 7:1 ....a poor bottom being 1, and an excellent bottom being 7.

After digesting the info, I suspect some of us will reconsider our current ground tackle and all it's components....but then again, maybe not. Anyway, I think you will find the link informative.

Last edited by NCC320; 08-11-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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  #152  
Old 08-11-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail:908246
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_hunter View Post
Rocna et al made in China fail shear testing, and do not get a Lloyds pass.
If you are going to post factually worded statements you might want to back them up? Please show us:

1- Where a Rocna failed a sheer test. Links to this sheer test might help.

2- The Lloyds test that it failed to not get a "pass" on..

Rocna anchors are RINA certified not Lloyds and they do now have that certification despite still being produced in China.... The RINA and Lloyds numbers for SHHP are nearly identical so if one anchor passes RINA it is using nearly the same load standards as Lloyds and vice versa.

It took roughly 64,000 pounds to bend that Rocna 55kg anchor.... It never failed at a weld only bent at approx 64,000 pounds of force..
He we go again; don't get your panties in a sheetbend, just do a Google search and all will be well. Forget about posts accounts of recalls and lawsuits of Rocna anchors that adorn every boating forum from here to there. Here's one not so negative: http://manson-marine.co.nz/SitePages/Supreme_Anchor_high_standards.htm
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  #153  
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Yeah, I think I'll stay with quality control rather than mind control of the "what's popular today". Thank you very much.
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  #154  
Old 08-11-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

NCC,

The cable part of your one example is interesting. I see this point, as with permanent mooring anchors, one has to be somewhat big, but usually a mushroom being buried to gain some additional power to hold. I can see where a smaller "something" at the anchor, will allow it to bury more, giving it some more holding power in some conditions like you describe. Where as the BIG 1/2" chain that Aaron is saying may/will not allow the anchor to bury as much, not allowing it to gain as much traction, hence needing bigger ground tackle to work!

Then again, being as some that can, will dive the anchor, dig it in as Aaron does in big winds will negate some of this thinking. BUT, still a different possibly better option for some that can not, nor have time to dive the anchor.

For what it is worth, used my new 9lb fastset, 5' of 3/8" bbb chain the other day while doing RC duty. Scope was 3-1 or there abouts depending upon the tide chainge over 2 hrs of dropping upwards of 3', winds typically 4-8, a couple of gusts to 10. Never moved! Unlike trying to set the 3'ish lb danforths for the buoy's.........what a PITA! Took three tries for both buoy's! meanwhile the fastset worked the first drop, as does my 17.5kg claw with 15' of 1/4"ht.

At the end of the day, as shown by many of the posts, one has to have multiple anchor/chain/rode options depending upon the anchor spot you are in, conditions etc.

Marty
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  #155  
Old 08-11-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_hunter View Post
He we go again; don't get your panties in a sheetbend, just do a Google search and all will be well. Forget about posts accounts of recalls and lawsuits of Rocna anchors that adorn every boating forum from here to there. Here's one not so negative: Manson Anchors: Supreme Anchor high standards
I have been involved in the Rocna debacle since the very beginning. I have been, and am still very critical of what they did, which is lie and mislead the consumer. I was actually the one to publicly call out Hold Fast / Steve Bambury on the lies about their Rina certification and forced them to change the web site. Just because I owned a Rocna did not mean I was a Lemming. Part of the reason I now have a Mantus is because I don't want to advertise anything that Peter Smith still has his hands in. I think CMP is a good company but with Peter still in the picture I simply choose not to hang a Roicna on my bow and advertise for them, despite how great an anchor it is. My opinion of the performance will not change, it is tremendous anchor, but I simply don't like the ethics of the inventor/designer.

Despite my feelings about Peter Smith, Craig Smith and the Bambury's it does not make me want to simply make up facts to denigrate them further. The problem is that your "facts" are not facts and they are stooping to the same low level that Hold Fast and the Smith's stooped to. If you have actual evidence that any Rocna failed a sheer test, even the lowest grade of steel they used during the debacle, PLEASE publish that information here. If you don't have that information it might be best to resist making up your own "facts" just to try an pile on a manufacturer. There is PLENTY of damning evidence against Rocna to post without the need to make stuff up.

The long & short is the metals were changed from the designers specified grade to a lesser grade but still sold as a premium grade, DISGUSTING. They also LIED about the status of their RINA certifications. Again, DISGUSTING. Still I don't know of a single test where they failed a "sheer load" and they never went for Lloyds only Rina, which even with the lower grade of steel currently used, they pass SHHP standards with.

The Rocna saga was disgusting, deceitful and dishonest but the anchor is still one hell of a good design.. I own a Rocna, Manson Supreme, Mantus, two Spades, two CQR's, Fortress, Danforth, Genuine Bruce and a Supermax and have owned a Delta. The Rocna, Manson Supreme and Mantus are by far the best of the anchors I own.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 08-11-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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  #156  
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Well let's call a spade a spade then. We all make choices based on our own experiences. My personal experience with Rocna hasn't been as favorable as yours.
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  #157  
Old 08-12-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Let me make it simple for ya, put down 100 feet of 5/8 chain and a 70 pound Danforth. Set it, forget it, go to seep. You won't find it on a web site or google, If you don't agree it's because you have'nt had to deal with these situations day in and day out, over and over again. Eventually you just go big. You can bla bla bla about weight ratios and so called pro's said this and that, but at the end of the storm, the guy with the big ground tackle wins.
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  #158  
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

So you are saying if I show up in my supertanker, that a 70 lb danforth and some 5/8" chain will be sufficient!?!?!?!?!?!hmmmmmmmmm do not think so!

Not sure my 8' pram to go fishing out of needs 100' f 5/8" chain! probably a 5 lb coffee tin full of cement, and eye bolt and some 1/4" poly about 50' in length would do the trick!

Again, it comes down to where you are, conditions you expect etc as to what is really the "BEST" anchor/rode setup!

Marty
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  #159  
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
You can bla bla bla about weight ratios and so called pro's said this and that, but at the end of the storm, the guy with the big ground tackle wins.
I use a 121 LB Rocna. Not one of thise little 70LB Danforths. Does that mean I win?.
What did I win?
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Last edited by noelex77; 08-12-2012 at 03:51 AM.
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

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Originally Posted by noelex77 View Post
i use a 121 lb rocna. Not one of thise little 70lb danforths. Does that mean i win?.
What did i win?
You win your boat! Becuase it's still there after the storm. I'm inspired to take a cruise around the key's with my skiff an take pictures of all the guy's who lost. My permanent strom tackle is 2 150 pound home made anchors, the little 70 pound Danforth is what I cruise with for a storm anchor.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 08-12-2012 at 09:10 AM.
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