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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #41  
Old 07-25-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

The message from this thread is that many crusing boats start with anchors that are totally inadequate.
If you anchor in parts of the world where the bottom conditions are a little difficult, like hard sand, or some weed and 1/2 the boats drag when the average gets above 25k. This is a very poor result. Even if discount many of these boats dragging due to adequate technique, there is still a large number of boats where their anchoring gear has let them down.

I think the answer is a large modern anchor. The older generation anchors will often not penetrate difficult conditions no matter how heavy they are. Kellets are of limited value.

Even with today's better forecasts bad conditions can strike anytime. My worst anchoring conditions were when the the forcast was only Beaufort 6-7, it was a lot more.

Set up your boat with an oversized modern anchor. This will only add 10-20kg to your bow. Make sure your anchor windlass can deal with this small extra weight and use it all the time.
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  #42  
Old 07-25-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

The problem I have personally with these moderns is to get one of a decent weight, it's huge. My 70 pound Danforth is half the size of a 50 pound Delta, My 35 danforth on the bow looks right, sit's snug and is the perfect shape for my 50 pound CQR to rest on. It just looks right. My big Danforth sits nice and low in an aft laz, just below the water line. I have a couple other little anchors in my cockpit lazzerettes, one on each side. I think it's funny people will spend a sh!t load of money on gadgets they don't really need and won't spend money on the single most important peice of eqiupment on board, the anchor. When all else fails, you need a big ass anchor to keep you out of trouble. Engine dead, demasted, worst case scenerio, your being blown on a lee shore, you need a big ass anchor. I've seen a number of cruisers get caught with their pants down. I've helped a number gadget boaters by lending them one of my decent sized anchors.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 07-25-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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  #43  
Old 07-25-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

I think it is smart to oversize your anchor, unless you don't plan to leave your boat or fall asleep. I also believe that anchor manufacturers try to suggest the smallest anchor possible, as it makes them more cost competitive.
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  #44  
Old 07-25-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

It's funny because what you read is "right size". is actually under size. What even I'm calling"over size" is actually the right size. I learned how to survive on the hook, not from a book, but by actually spending 20 years on the hook. Be a good name for a book, " 20 years on the hook" ...Of course I'd have to read up on the subject some more to write a book about it !! (grin, smile, grin )
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 07-25-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 07-25-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

hmmmmmm.........some like noelix77 need to remember, some of us with smaller boats do not know what windlass's are, so like JeffH mentiones, the "back" is what brings up the anchor and chain! So one trys the best they can to choose an anchor size that has enough sq footage/inches of face if you will, along with weight to hold the boat in a given condition they might be in. Which also says why many have 2+ anchors, usually of different styles/wts/etc so the types of soil/rock etc one has to anchor in, will be covered.

Not sure there is a right or wrong anchor, other than the wrong one is one that does not hold you, no matter the condition. Be it the operators fault for not setting it properly, not being able to set it, it not setting in the conditions it is in......many issues here, not just a weight issue frankly. As the aluminum fortress anchors hold better at half the wt of other anchors. BUT< they have a tendency to float/act like a fishing lure if you are moving due to wind, waves, current or equal and will not go down to the bottom as quick as a spade/claw or equal. Even steel danforth designs can float and not get you set if you need to get set NOW!

While it would be nice to have an assortment like mainsail, or test etc as he has done, one could use the recommendations by one chandelier I know of, ie 1 lb of anchor per foot in length, and 1 foot of chain per foot of boat length. Chain size is not speced, but most anchor manufactures will recommend a chain size for a given anchor, so use that or upsize one.

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  #46  
Old 07-26-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

My Boat is ~9000#. My Primary is a 35# CQR on 30' of 5/16" chain and 300' of 1/2 nylon. I generally single hand, and although I've got an engine I usually, and prefer to, sail on and off the anchor.

My secondary is a 22# danforth also on 30' of 5/16" chain and 300' of 1/2" nylon. I've got a 13# danforth stern anchor, with 15' of 1/4" chain and 150' of 3/8" nylon.

I have no windlass and hoisting the primary is do able, but I'd hate to go much larger. I sometimes think about switching to the 22# danforth as my primary, for ease of handling.

I know that the CQR has lots of detractors, but I have been happy with it and I sleep well. If there is any sort of weather expected I use the engine to back down on it.
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
hmmmmmm.........some like noelix77 need to remember, some of us with smaller boats do not
I do remember. I owned yachts for 20 years without a windlass. However for full time long distance crusing I don't believe it's viable. I have seen lots try and fail. Without an anchor winch when your anchor does not set for the third time will you pull it up and try again? Most do not. Many physically cannot even if they want to.
Boats without an anchor winch nearly always have anchoring gear that is too small. That's is their assessment, not just mine. " my anchoring gear is too small, but I cannot lift anything larger"

There are very rare exceptions to the above rule, mainly shallow draft vessels with young crew. Even these people need to be selective about the areas that they cruse in many anchorages small boat moorings now take up the shallow spots, or the terrain makes it impossible.
Even Capt.aaron would concede he cannot cruse an area where you regularly need to anchor in 15m ( 50 feet) especially if the bottom or other conditions make rope rode unsafe.
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

It's true what noelex say's. I feel naked without a windlass and have alway's wanted one. I just turned 41 so I'm getting realistic about how much longer I can muscle my big ass anchor. I will say though, that by sitting, locking my legs, pulling with my whole body, a little at a time, taking a turn between hoists and using my sail to ride up on the rhode, I am still quite comfortable and capable. I'm ceratinly not superman, but I work on a tug boat and barge and am constantly throwing 3' line 20 feet to a bollard so I'm actually stronger than I was ten years ago. Those freak'n windlass's are EXPENSIVE, so I've alway's managed to justify hand raising. I bet I'll have one by the end of the year. When I've been unable to get the big boy up, I put out the lunch hook and don the dive gear. I have a river type dry bag that doubles as a lift bag, I float that thing out of the mud or what ever it's dug into and pull it aboard like it's nothing. Some see this as a lot of work, I think it's fun. As for deep anchorages, I draw 3 feet with my board up (8 with it down) so I can creep into some pretty protected shallow areas. The only reason I can cruise without a windless is becuase I'm on a tiny ( but seaworthy) boat. 5 feet and a few tons heavier and it would be out of the question.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 07-26-2012 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 07-26-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

Quote:
Originally Posted by bristol299bob View Post
I know that the CQR has lots of detractors, but I have been happy with it and I sleep well.
The availability of newer anchors doesn't mean that the CQR is any less effective than it ever was. Just because there are better anchors doesn't mean the CQR may not be good enough, at least for you.

In my experience the newer anchors are flat out better based on same boat, same skipper.

In addition, the newer anchors are somewhat (not completely) less dependent on really good technique than the older ones.

Finally, size guidance differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. They use different conditions to develop their recommendations.

I think CQR and Bruce anchors should be two sizes up from the manufacturers recommendation. Delta should be one size up. Rocna, Spade, and Fortress seem to have good guidance (I'd use the Rocna sizing guidelines for Manson).

YMMV.
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Old 07-26-2012
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Re: Let's talk about anchors some more

my arms ache just reading this thread Captain!
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